Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Non-printing linetype?

jpbernier

active

Joined: Fri, Dec 5, 2008
0 Posts

Yes "Design is crap if you can't document and build it", but your design program is crap if it isn't geared toward efficiently producing construction drawings.  That does not mean it has to be a drafting only program but logically, producing professional looking, accurate construction drawings does require the use of drafting tools at many levels.  My experience with Revit so far, particularly regarding those who pull that little string on their chest and squawk "It's not Autocad!  It's not Autocad" clearly have never understood how to effectively use Autocad in the first place.

When Revit moves ouf the stone age and begins incorporating otherwise industry standard production tools such as selection sets, numeric tracking offsets, snap-between-two-points, etc. and gets rid of that GDF mouse-over highlighting nonsense... or how about a text editor that is better than 1985 .txt document formatting?   Oh, hey and how about that novel concept of "Use Previous Plot Settings"?  ...when Revit steps into this century of production tools, then I will be start tp be impressed.  Until then, it's really just an expensive excuse to get your detail numbers to update automatically when you move them around.

"Revit:  If it looks good, it's wrong"

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

View Website

WWHub

site moderator|||

Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
13079 Posts

Watch out here son.  I started with hand drafting then went to autocad 2.6.  I wrote many a lisp routine, probaby before you were born - see attached.  These only go back to '86 but I bet my flexible 5 1/4" floppies at home go a few years earlier. 

As I said, you have to learn to use the program.  THIS IS NOT AUTOCAD and I know autocad!

Attached Images

This user is offline

jpbernier

active

Joined: Fri, Dec 5, 2008
0 Posts

Well, "dad" you're only a couple of versions ahead of me.  I started on v9, and taught it for several years at a professional level between v14 and 2002 and have a whole library of LISP and DIESEL that my 7 drafters (used) for many years before going solo.  I'll see your floppy and raise you an Ames Lettering Guide!   :-)

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

View Website

CLesselles

active

Joined: Mon, Mar 24, 2014
0 Posts
No Rating

Hmm... "Design is crap if you can't document it and build it."

I completely agree that design is crap if you can't build it (as long as being built is the goal of the specific design exercise).  Documentation is also a requirement for most design exercises.  However, I am also certain that things were built and documented before Revit, and it is fair to bring up shortcomings of the program in comparison with previous design tools.  It is important to bring up these shortcomings in hopes that it will be fixed and improved in the future.  Dodging the issue and blaming the designer is a common and many times accepted response to criticisms of Revit for some reason.  Non-printing linetypes is a proven valuable tool for designers, otherwise the question wouldn't be raised.  Revit is a tool for designers, and as such should be molded to fit the designers, not the other way around.

This user is offline

WWHub

site moderator|||

Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
13079 Posts

Clesselles,

You are quite correct in saying "... it is fair to bring up shortcomings of the program in comparison with previous design tools."  Your only error here is assuming that Revit is primarily a design tool.  Both CAD and Revit are NOT primarily design tools.  They ARE documentation tools and often used to assist in design. So evaluate the program as a documentation tool first.  In that regard, it is far superior to Autocad in respect to building documentation.  But CAD is far superior to Revit in mechanical drafting for non-building elements. 

Every program has its own unique processes and tools.   Initially, almost all CAD users do not like Revit because they only know their CAD process.  Because of Revit's uniqness, there are processes that were never available in CAD and thus you had tools like non-printing text.  Once you learn to use these new tools and change your process for the better you wont feel that pain.  You will have new ones.

This user is offline

CLesselles

active

Joined: Mon, Mar 24, 2014
0 Posts
No Rating

Advising designers and drafters to changing processes 'for the better' is a very subjective judgment, and is in no way an absolute piece of advice.

Things like different types of guides just visible to the user or invisible text to write notes during a project file handoff are important and useful documentation tools.  The answer to this subject is, "no, there is not a way to have a non-printing linetype in Revit."  It shouldn't include a, "well you shouldn't be doing that anyway" because that's just untrue.  It is a useful tool that is not available in Revit as of yet, and that's fine.  I wish that Revit savvy folks would be more on board with "hmm let's try to be innovative and make it more versatile" and less like "this is what it is so get used to it."  Especially when Revit is such a far from polished tool.

This user is offline

WWHub

site moderator|||

Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
13079 Posts

And I have always fought those that say "because we always did it that way".  There is usually always a better process if you can only open your mind.  But that does take that ability.

This user is offline

CLesselles

active

Joined: Mon, Mar 24, 2014
0 Posts
No Rating

Ummm.... you're supporting a point of view for less versatility and doing it the 'revit way', which is the closed-minded view on the issue.  Blindingly believing Revit to be the better way is strange, and you have not offered any workaround to what is a very useful tool in documentation that is missing.  New is not always better, and in this case it is very clear that there is a missing element in Revit, and for some reason you are defending and falsely claiming that documentation is better off without it.  As for someone who also writes code, I am very surprised that you don't acknowledge the value of text and types of guides that are exclusive to the programmer that the end user won't have to see because it's not applicable to them.  There's a huge value and benefit to having a tool like that, and denying that value makes no sense.

Revit is the new standard, and it is the most efficient tool for documentation currently, but it's far from perfect and there is a large chasm of improvement that the 'experts' try to sweep under the rug.  Accusing people of being archaic when they're proposing an opportunity for innovation is absurd Orwellian doublespeak. 

This user is offline

teafoe5

site moderator|||

Joined: Fri, Nov 12, 2010
1749 Posts

I don't understand the arguments, if you don't like how Revit does things go back to CAD or hand drafting.. I'm sure invisiable lines were VERY helpful when hand drafting.  Create a line type that can be turned off before printing, it's pretty simple.

"it's far from perfect and there is a large chasm of improvement that the 'experts' try to sweep under the rug.  Accusing people of being archaic when they're proposing an opportunity for innovation is absurd Orwellian doublespeak." There is no perfect program, if there was everyone would be using it.  Nobody is sweeping everything under the rug and the "experts" know how to workaround the "problems" that the less experienced users cannot fixure out and that is a reason for this site.. to HELP the people that have the questions and YES workarounds will sometimes need to be used.  If you have a problem with the programing put it on the wishlist for Autodesk there is nothing we can do about it here.

This user is offline

View Website

jpbernier

active

Joined: Fri, Dec 5, 2008
0 Posts

It's pretty telling of how well designed a program is when there are 127,960 (as of today) comments in the Technical Support section, (of just thisforum).  There are dozens of forums (including this one) where people post either bad, or wrong advice to people who have questions about common, though undocumented, processes.  

I've been "learning" Revit for over a year now and of all the questions "answered" maybe about 25% of them actually answer the question.  Most either misunderstand it, or rather than answering the question; criticize the person posting the question. "why are you doing that?" or some other nonsense.  I'm here to tell you, that does not help.  If you don't know how to answer the person's question, why are you asnwering them at all?   If Revit (and lots of other programs) were really designed for the end user, there would be very little, if any, problem figuring out how to do what should be absolutely simple tasks.  Revit misses this to an order of magnitude that does not exist with any other industry standard programs (except perhaps Quick Books, don't get me started with that one!).  

The problem is not that Revit is incapable of performing specific tasks, rather the problem is that the way to go about it makes very little sense or requires many workarounds -- and the documentation of how to perform these is often poorly written, or missing entirely.

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

View Website

jimmyjjohn

active

Joined: Wed, Oct 9, 2013
1 Posts
No Rating

Another approach is to create a linetype in linestyles, then prior to printing, you can as said above, hide in view that linetype, or you can go to visibility graphics overrides and turn off that linetype under model lines.

-----------------------------------

scarpe antinfortunistiche

This user is offline

View Website

Badkube

active

Joined: Mon, Jan 30, 2012
10 Posts
No Rating

wow... possibly the most condescending man in the history of Revit forums... You must be a joy to work with... 

I actually have what I think is a very valid reason for having non printing lines - I want to be able to differentiate a curtain wall panel that defines the type and mark for a particular curtain wall assembly - I want it to be easy to spot but I don't want it to print differently from any other panel.

This user is offline

pijpiwo

active

Joined: Fri, Sep 3, 2010
0 Posts

Try this. Hope it helps.

This user is offline

WWHub

site moderator|||

Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
13079 Posts

"...condescending..."  ??? Obviously this poster either does not know the meaning of that word or did not have the intellegence to read the post before mine where the poster said "...My experience with Revit so far, particularly regarding those who pull that little string on their chest and squawk "It's not Autocad!  It's not Autocad" clearly have never understood how to effectively use Autocad in the first place...."

Such a joy to read this nonsense!

This user is offline

arqrivas

active

Joined: Thu, Apr 17, 2014
0 Posts
No Rating

WOW, seriously, I came here with the same question, cause I felt the need of having a linetype with the non plot capability. And I found this discussion extended over the time just because of a simple feature. I don't know why there is a atmosphere around Revit that wants to make Revit look like a perfect Software and if someone has a need or any difficulty doing something, then is the user problem that does not understand how to use Revit, I have notice this atmosphere in a lot of forums and sometimes I feel intimidated to ask something on forums because of this, but this is crazy and wrong. I will ask something to those who defend Revit saying that a non printing linetype is not needed and feeling that need is lack of knowing Revit. What if Autodesk add this feature to Revit in the future, what will you say? that is was a waste? will you use it? or you will be duplicating views to keep working the sameway, because as you defend the way it is now is like if this is perfect?  Why is so difficult just to admit and say, Revit can't do that but you can get it througt a workaround....

This is obviously a need, you can look online and find that several users are asking and requesting this, I don't think is a proccess thing, is a need that Revit have to address

Honsetly, once I was looking online to see if there were a way to import a PDF into Revit and I found an interesting anwser, someone say "yes, you can import it but you have to convert it to jpeg fist" Really!! Why this person could not admit Revit does not import PDF.

Please friends, we can't not commit our lives to a software, provokin even anger between people because of a software, this is not right. 

There is not any perfect software in this world, all have cons and pros, but the ability of recognizing the weakness and addressing them is what makes the difference with time.

I'm not pointing to anyone in specific, just look into yourself.

-----------------------------------

Revit 2019 / Windows 7

This user is offline

Handy Linetype

3

How to add new linetype to family

3

Help: Linetype with text?

1

Revit equivalent of AutoCAD's Linetype Generation?

3

NON-PRINTING LAYERS??

3