Forums >> Revit Structure >> Technical Support >> Spacing between Columns and Beams

chaggas

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Joined: Wed, Aug 22, 2007
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I am curious about the start and end calculation parameter found in most default steel beams as well as a parameter that I can’t quite define found in column family templates. I understand that you typically want a 1/2” gap between a steel column and beam. What I need to know is how to control this gap as it seems to have a different effect on some of the columns and beams that I have tried editing and customizing. Also, in an attempt to represent a clip angle welded to an HSS steel column, I noticed that in the family template it shows the clip as being flush, but in the model there is a 1” gap between the clip angle and the column and then another gap between the end of the clip angle and the beam. I need to figure out how to control this. Attached are two files showing representing the problems that I’m running into. For the time being, I’ll just have to take the clips off of the column and pay attention to the order of operations in which I attach objects.

Any advice or information or start in the right direction are welcomed and appreciated.

Thank you,

Cynthia

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brettgoodchild

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Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
425 Posts

Hello chaggas,

I looked at you files and here is what I found.

For the clip angles:

I looked at the families and what I found in the column family is the clip angle needs to be moved so it is on the face of the column. I used the move command with the disjoin option, but after this I had to go back and readd the clip distance dimension as moving disjoined deleted that constraint. After that I loaded it back into the project and the display was correct. The reason the beam sits back so far is that it told to have a -1/2" offset from the column and since the clip angles are part of the column Revit reads it as the column therefore setting it back. What I did was go into the beam family and the first thing I saw was that there was actually two sweeps representing the beam. I deleted the one that does not have a radius and loaded it back into the project. After that I played with the start/end extensions to get a more proper look.

As for your first question about controlling the gap, I'm not sure what you mean. When I changed the start/end extensions in the first file it seemed to work how it should.

If you have a different example of how it is reacting for you I could take a look at. 

HTH

Brett 

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chaggas

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Joined: Wed, Aug 22, 2007
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I figured as much with the clip angles being part of the beam and therefore the start and end calculations would offset from the end of the clip. I think I can fix that by simply adjusting the beam calculations or inserting the two separately. What I’m still missing is that I thought that I already had the clip angles flush with the sides of the columns. When I measured the gap at 1” in the project and moved the clip in closer by 1” the clip then appeared to be flush with the column in the project but inside the column in the family template. This was the part that was really confusing.

Is there a way to change the VG of the line work and line weights? For example in sketch-up the line work is originally think and heavy and cartoonish, but you can easily change the visibility to ‘edge profile’ and get smooth and crisp line work. When I work in the family templates my line work shows up as that thick and fuzzy, like carton line weight and it becomes difficult to work with small clip angles and such. Do I have to change the type of line that it has been used to create the family or is it a simple visibility mode?

As for controlling the start and end calculator, in my experience it varies based on the material of the column that the beam is snapping to. I’m guessing that there is some built in intelligence about steel connecting to steel, wood, and concrete.

This is very odd being that almost everyone claims that Revit does not have “connections,”

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brettgoodchild

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Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
425 Posts

A lot of the times in families objects need to be locked to another "host" object other wise they can move if you change size or possition of the object. For example, if the connections are not "ALIGNED & LOCKED" to the column when you change the size of the column, the connections might stay in their original possition.

Here is what I did with the file. I went into the column family and moved/disjoind teh connection so it was fluch with the column. Then I used the align command and locked them to the column therefore constraining them to the column. This way, if the column changes size, the connections will go as well.

If I am understanding you, you are seeing the lines display their weights... looking thick and what not. It can be a real pain when you are working on smaller ares. If you want to turn off the lineweight disply there is an icon on your tool bar called thin lines and is right next to the zoom button.

If you have another file that you are having issues with about the start/end connection that you could post I would be happy yo take a look at it for you. I haven't had an issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

HTH

Brett 

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