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Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> Autodesk sucked me in again!

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Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 1:20:05 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#1

cwsharp


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I am, by nature, an optimist. I continue to be exasperated by the fact that each and every new feature, each and every new product, each and every new idea that Autodesk comes up with I think WOW. HEY. WHOOPEEE... they finally got it.

I have been ranting and raving about a variety of adventures with Autodesk for over twenty years. You would think I would learn. I am, I guess, a complete idiot.

Revit is NOT ready for prime time. I don't want to hear about work arounds... I am tired of work arounds. I want a product that delivers on its promise. I know this can be done... SketchUp does it, for example... other than the fact that their interface has to have a few unique quirks from Autodesk's just to piss me off, I guess... or vice versa.

Autodesk does not work with their products... I am fully convinced of that. We are in the middle of a set of contract documents for a 75K s.f. school. We added a compound roof (sloping roof with tapered insulation) yesterday and the performance of the regeneration, selection, and display went in the tank. I mean went to unusable. The roof put it over the edge. I thought I was done, for once and for all, with regens! My god... I have gone back 10 years in time when it comes to reasonably productivity improvements.

We have the maxiumum amount of memory you can get to work on XP, 512mb graphics cards, high end processors, and anything else you can think of... to no avail. Is BIM a good idea? You bet. Is Revit ready to do BIM in even a reasonably comprehensive fashion on anything other than some small residential project? I DON'T THINK SO.

Revit can't communicate with replicating servers so you can't work between multiple offices on the same model. The files are so huge you do not EVER want to work over a VPN on the same model. You cannot reasonably work between remote locations (or, more importantly, remote firms) on the same model. DUH!

I am an idiot for taking this project down this path... it is a disservice to my client and my firm. I HATE THIS CRAP.

End of rant.


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Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 1:55:45 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#2

JAMESHGRIMES


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Well, that is your opinion. Personally I have had great success with Revit. Sure, there are some "hitches" but overall I think the program is headed in the right direction. My goal is to be proficient with the program now, and then in the future when everybody is using Revit for documentation, I will be ready. I don't want my company to be stuck using out-of-date methods/programs in the future. Like it or not this is the next generation of CAD software.


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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 7:18:37 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#3

DLicata


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I've been working on large projects since I started learning Revit and never had the kinds of problems your running into... maybe I'm just lucky.  I agree with James and I believe that Revit is the future and I'd rather keep working with it than going back to "soon to be" outdated cad.

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 Licata Hansen Associates Architecture

Reno, NV USA

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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 7:30:09 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#4

cwsharp


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We are modeling everything except the drafting overlays. We are using Revit families, not masses. We linked in the structural and site design to try and speed things up.

Our structural engineer is working on a 400K s.f. building, with the architectural model linked. It takes 22 seconds for a change to a beam size to complete. As a result, he is hesitant about using the product on our design since we have had such fun with ours. We did the structural model so that the componenets would show up in all of the sections, etc. It sure would have been nice if he had done the model instead.

If you think that 22 seconds for a beam change regen makes sense, well, then, yes you would disagree with me.


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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 8:03:41 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#5

DLicata


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No that doesn't make sense... I think you need to make a change.

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 LHAA

 Licata Hansen Associates Architecture

Reno, NV USA

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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 9:35:20 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#6

LIZARD2806


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No program is perfect.  Every single one has its limitations.  In my opinion the benefits of Revit far outweigh any issues it may have (though I dare say I have not seen many).  That being said, everyone is entitled to their own opinions so on we move to your issue.

 

I upgraded the systems on our office to workstations as soon as we began to use Revit.  While not knowing the exact specs (for example, which graphics card, which processor) it is tough to know if that is really the cause of your problems.  all 2GHz processors are not created equal (even within a single company like Intel).

 

Assuming you have the latest and greatest hardware, then you should look into software issues.  While Revit will slow down when doing large projects or complex shapes, your slowdown sounds quite unusual.  (As a sidebar, AutoCAD was terrible with performance when one added too much hatch!!).  Anyway, there are a myriad of things that could be causing your problems besides Revit.  Here are a few things I would urge you to do (though I can plainly hear the complete disgust in your voice, and know the feeling):

 

1.  Start clean:  Start your computer in safe mode, then run Revit and see if there are any issues.  If it runs better, it means there is another program that is causing Revit to slow down.  If it is the case that Revit works normally, now it is a long laborious process to figure out which program is doing it (though it would most likely be firewall, security, antivirus, etc)

2.  During a regular session (not safe mode), go into your task manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL) toget an idea of what is running and using resources.

3.  Check your firewall and antivirus.  If you do a search for Norton, you'll see a post I had regarding Norton, which made my regen time between views on even simple models 20-30 seconds-and we are talking real simple models.  It turned out it had to do with portable licensing and Norton not liking each other.  (and although Norton was sure that reinstallign my operating system would fix the problem-yeah right-I chose instead to go to a different antivirus program and all was better).

4.  Try purging the file, and make sure there aren;t any poorly made families in the model or things that are overly complex.

 

I hope that maybe one of those solves your problem and you'll regain some trust in Revit.  Let me know if you need more help.Cheers.


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**Using Revit Architecture 2009, 2011, and 2012**

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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 10:15:12 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#7

cwsharp


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Been there, done those. I don't rant without cause. I continually hear of people only creating the simplest of 3D and then drawing everything on top of their cuts in drafting mode.

We have reasonably late Dell XPS workstations... 490's. We aren't running Vista. They perform well with other software. They have 3GB of memory (4 actually, only 3 of which we can really make use of). They have mid-high performance Nvidia graphics cards (I don't have the number handy) with at least 256 MB of memory, and I'm pretty sure they have 512 (again, not able to look so I'm being conservative).

As I also said, I have been at this for 25+ years. It isn't something that I lack understanding in. I did draw my own home in full 3D. Revit did great for that <smirk>. ADT nor anything else that Autodesk has ever produced has handled a "complete" 3D model with possibly the exception of Viz and the sun system didn't work in that for years.

The complaints are numerous... and they involve the actual production of a set of CD's... and as has always been the case, it seems, Autodesk just simply doesn't spend their time using their product to do what we do with it... and so they don't have a real understanding of the issues.

Type one handed and use a mouse for speed. How often do you put in dimensions in even FEET? Maybe if we go to metric, then unit entry without an additional annotation would make sense. I can't tell you how many times I type too fast for Revit to pick up the " sign that I put in, and the edit ends up 16 feet moved over, instead of 16". If the  base unit is inches THEN I ONLY NEED TO USE ONE KEY TO MAKE IT FEET... give me some credit please.

My god... the number of these issues is a list just as long as it has been for every product since the dawn of Autodesk sans John Walker... when the stockholder became king. REGENS!!! ARGGGHHHH... we were done with those a long time ago in AutoCAD... and ADT.

Try outputting workable ACAD file for your consultants to use... without requiring a ton of edits to correct ceiling grids along curved walls which are exported as blocks without an editable hatch boundary.

I'm wasting my time... I'm the idiot here.


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Tue, Dec 4, 2007 at 10:35:13 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#8

LIZARD2806


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Sounds like it's time to hit the bar!  I'm just trying to help and sorry you are having such a rough time of it...and just a side note, you don't have to use the inches sign ".  You can type 0 16 (or 1 4)and it will go 16" and for that matter, if you DO decide to switch to metric <smiling>you can also type 22mm in an imperial drawing and it will convert it for you.  Smile 

 

I wasn;t a big fan of the whole inches and feet change at first, but it has kind of grown on me.  At least they did stuff like make your roof pitch be in inches (without the "Winking.  Someone was doing some thinking.  I would love to see a toggle at the bottom of the screen though, as the feet thing works great in Preliminary design (I don;t normally draw walls 3 inches long), but as you get into more detail, you tend to use inches more.

 

Lots of great opportunites for debates, and it all comes down to individuality...oh well.

 

Good luck to you. 

 

 


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**Using Revit Architecture 2009, 2011, and 2012**

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Thu, Dec 6, 2007 at 9:55:40 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#9

ideaguy


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Oh my I feel you pain. Our model is 1,2034,000 building and we have everyone (consultants) linked with their models. But it has not been fun, except when reveit behaves as we anticipated. (80% of the time)

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Thu, Dec 6, 2007 at 10:37:45 PM | ideaguy

#10

coreed


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Quoting ideaguy from 2007-12-06 15:55:40

"Oh my I feel you pain. Our model is 1,2034,000 building and we have everyone (consultants) linked with their models. But it has not been fun, except when reveit behaves as we anticipated. (80% of the time)"

1,2034,000? fix that and maybe you can get 90% Smile

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"Revit has to be implemented, Not installed." 

Long Live Revit

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Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 1:38:52 AM | cwsharp

#11

NKramer


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Quoting cwsharp from 2007-12-04 13:30:09

"We are modeling everything except the drafting overlays. We are using Revit families, not masses. We linked in the structural and site design to try and speed things up.

If you think that 22 seconds for a beam change regen makes sense, well, then, yes you would disagree with me."

 

Have you looked into the revit warning list under tools? If you have a lot of warnings it can kill a project (overlaping walls, lines out of axis/ plane, etc.)

Just something to check. There are a lot of things that Revit doesnt like. And yes I agree that Autodesk as well as resellers never actually create a REAL project in any of their software.

 

I remember when AutoCAD 2000 (and even before) came out and the resellers wheer showing you a fully 3d house with all the bells and wistls. The only problem was that would take you 3 years to finish. The same for Revit and everything else. Training, tutorials, etc are always done on a square retail building with a "fancy" entry way.....

We could probably all rant on for ever. I think thats why the corupted wishes thread took off, just people looking to vent.

We could always go back to medevial times when you just walked out to the site and sid put that there, or Russia where the Architect (and or engineer I dont recall which) had to stand under the truss or roof as all of the supports were taken out; if your design worked then you lived to work another day, if not then you died with your design.

Theres always a bring side to things Smile

 

Nick

Edited on: Thu, Dec 6, 2007 at 7:40:06 PM

Edited on: Thu, Dec 6, 2007 at 7:40:46 PM

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Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 8:05:18 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#12

jeffy


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If you want the efficiency of what it felt like being in AutoCAD and the "BIM" of Revit, then you need to go look at ArchiCAD.  While everyone wants to sit on their buts and wait it out with Revit and Autodesk, for those of you who desire efficiency and power can go get it right now from ArchiCAD.  I have implement and managed projects in both Revit and ArchiCAD on projects ranging from 100,000 sq ft to 1,000,000 and time and time again ArchiCAD will run circles around Revit when it come to efficiency.  I have even seen upwards of a 30% gain in efficiency from ArchiCAD projects over Revit projects.  If all you want to do is go BIM then you are fine to stay with Revit.  But if you want to go BIM and make a lot of profit and save your clients money then get off your butts and look at ArchiCAD.  They are both great programs and I love them both, but if efficiency is important then Revit has a long ways to go.  While, I will agree with anyone that Revit will run circles around AutoCAD, that does not mean has to be your solution for BIM.  Just because it’s owned by Autodesk does not mean it’s the best or only option.

Edited on: Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 3:34:28 PM

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Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 6:47:40 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#13

kesflower


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I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that has a love/hate relationship with Revit.  I love the potential and the possibilities of the technology, I hate the stumbling process of detailing a CD set and of dealing with an interface that at times you wonder if they even know how buildings go togehter or how gravity works (my favorite is the whole project / true north thing)

 

Hooray for Revit!  Revit is Evil!! 


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Ruth Rau

Main Street Architecture, P.C.

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Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 10:22:21 PM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#14

BS0450


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I am assuming that you are using worksets.  How many worksets do you have, are you utilzing the ability to only open the ones that you need to be working on a specific time?  Are your views set up to filter what you don't need to have opened?  Do you have a lot of arrays in families (this one is a killer)?  These are things that I have found to be a big contributor to file speed.

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Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 1:31:20 AM | Autodesk sucked me in again!

#15

newengarch


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I feel your pain. I hope you don't take offense with the following points. I had a similar experienced with slow regens an found that it was caused by Shadows being turned on. That put my work at a crawl. I also understand Links should be brought into just the view where needed with shared coordinates (aquired) and unloaded when not in use.  I assume you are working directly off your machine and saving to Central? I'm working on a fairly massive project and found Revit handling it ok. (so far)

Good Luck


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