Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit ROI >> Revit Project Performance

justgary

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Joined: Wed, Mar 22, 2006
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Hey out there!

My firm has basically made the commitment to Revit.  But we're finding that project managers have little solid data on which to forecast their project performance.  Our current pilot projects are either of such varying scope or have milestones months or years out as to be of little use right now.  Are you out there seeing the promised fewer RFI's and change orders?  Are we seeing comparable total team labor costs as the cad environment?

 Is it me or do some people just want all the answers now to questions that are still coming in?  Do we collectively know these answers and just in denial?  Or do we forge ahead together, albeit somewhat blindfolded, and find those answers in this brave new world?

Thanks for any and all assistance!

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swede611

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Joined: Mon, Jun 30, 2003
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KSGM

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Joined: Sat, Mar 19, 2005
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We're on our third or fourth complete Revit project and are really pushing it to our other consultants. We now have 8 platforms and 1 structural. We are definitely seeing a vast improvement in coordination issues internally and are now seeing a difference ($ savings) in production time. The big challenge is to rethink sequential fee billing as we (in Canada) currently apply. We are in the middle of fine tuning it, but are tackling it as follows:

Traditional breakdown of fees from start to finish of project (for our firm):

10% schematic design

10% design development

45% contract documents

5% tender

30% contract administration (we like to give ourselves lots of time on site to check everything out!).

Because we use Revit from the very start, we are actually developing contract documents at an early stage, so that by the time you have made all your design decisions in the traditional sense, you actually have the base model to complete your entire set of drawings. so...

We explain this to the client and bill portions of the subsequent phase as part of the current one. For example, when we are at 80% design development, we have probably already completed 20% at least of the working drawings. If you don't do this balance adjustment, then you will need to clearly define to your staff when you want them to start logging their time in each phase of the work, otherwise you will kill your budget in the design stage and do great in the working drawing stage.

Alternately, we are also considering adjusting our % applied to each phase of the work and looking at something more relfective of the amount of upfront time needed in design in order to create the contract documents.

20% shematic design

20% design development

25% contract documents

5% tender

30% contract administration

The above might be easier for the client to understand.

I highly recommend firms implement Revit and suggest that each firm establish a training allowance in either having staff take courses or defining amount of time to be spent on tutorials etc... We ask staff to donate some of their time to the training as well, since this is a skill asset they can take anywhere. All in all, I find, as an architect, that I can use the program all thru the design and bring clients in to show them the design in 3D very easily. They then have a true picture of the space and how they will  use it.

A+ for Revit! Structures were only on our first project, so too soon to tell but appears good so far.

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MikeChan

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Joined: Fri, May 13, 2005
61 Posts

This post might be a bit old, but I found it might be a very good refreshment or a reminder for everyone.

Personally, I think that the % of fee breakdown as 20-20-25-5-30 are fair and reasonable. I often heard that the butget was blow in Schematic Design stage and Develop Design stage as using Revit in most of the projects, and complaining about Revit make them losing money not making grant. However, they don't aware that more than 20% of the works of Contract Document have been done, and that is where one of the benefits of using Revit in projects. 

On one hand, shifting some of the fee for Contract Document to either Schematic Design and Develop Design is a reasonable adjustment. However, on the other hand, it will make the fee for Schematic Design and Develop Design less attractive to project owners or clients.

If use the 20% works od Contract Document as a bet, It might be too high risk from business prespective, because most projects might just be proposal, which after Schematic Design and up to Develop Design, and never go any further. So taking the belance certainly not an easy task. But one thing for sure, the traditional fee approach as 10-10-45-5-30 certainly not work with Revit. 

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mbsteve

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Joined: Fri, Sep 22, 2006
759 Posts

This is an older thread, thought I would update see if anyone else wants to add to this. Many more people have switched to revit since the inception of this thread. Looking for input regarding fees. Time Schedule, and Fee schedule.

1. Fees very, some people I have spoken with say that there fees for ARCH, are 5%, is this full service? Is anyone charging by square footage as example.

2. What about STRUCT, are we getting the benefit we might be looking for from the supposedly easy transfer of data. How do your fees compare. Can you include a % fee or are there other ways dependent on size building type etc.

3. What about MEP, are we enjoying the benefits of the 3D modeling. Do the built in calculators help. Have you had success transfering for energy use calculations. Draw backs.

4. What about detailing,

5. What about the Fee schedule loading, seems more time is necessary in the Design phase, a lot less time in the documents phase.

Please speak to any of the above question and provide any input you can I think it will be beneficial to the Revit community in general. Most of us moved to Revit from 2D ACAD, include if you can whether you migrated from there or from another system or are only familiar with Revit.

Hope I get some responses.

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