Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> structural Modeling in Architecture File

zakazai

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Hi

We are a consulting firm.

We have Architects, Structural engineers, and MEP

What i feel is, that i will try a pilot project with Architects and Structural Engineers, So that both of them will model in same file.

Then i wont have the wall base/top attaching issues, Wall join with columns and cut as per it problems.

But a bit confused of file management.

Any points from you in this regard?

is there any problems in this method? Normally we do structural modeling seperate and link to architectural model.

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WWHub

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You absolutly don't want to model in the same file! 

Learn how to use copy monitor and link the files both ways.

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Beaucoupnice

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Hi,I work for a firm with architects, structural engineers and civil engineers in the UK.We model all discplines in one model where possible.

The reason we do this is to increase workflow efficiency and ensure the latest modelling information is being used by all staff at all times. It is better.

In the UK, working this way (all in one model) is a big step towards Level 3 BIM which is all disciplines working in the same model that is cloud based. Most other projects where we are working with outside consultants, their models are created separately and are issued to us regularly so that the model may be brought into our model as a federated model.When working in the model I must admit, it has been more challenging (mostly for the beginner users) and we have had to make some compromises and workflow changes to ensure multiple users from multiple disciplines can work alongside one another without upsetting one another. This includes the creation of worksets for each discipline and ensuring all objects are placed on the correct workset. The creation of different view types ( plans/ sections/elevations) for arch v struct. The creation of different section types for different disciplines is critical as the model information builds and enables architects for example to easily turn off the structural sections that will appear everywhere and vice versa. I also make sure only the bare basic levels are added for each floor. That is I don't allow structural engineers to add in levels for each top of beam, bottom of beam etc.I think including the MEP information will make your model much larger, so until IT tech and software tech improves, I would make the MEP model a separate model.

At the end of the day if your model after cleaning up, purging, compressing etc exceeds to 220Mb, you need to consider breaking it down into smaller parts.

Good Luck.

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__________I'm the guy they come to when they didn't follow my recommended workflows.__________

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zakazai

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Dear WWHub

Thank you for your advice, Right now we are proceeding as you told.

Dear Beaucoupnice

i would like to hear abit more from you about splitting of project, because we also plan to work in single model.

for example i have a residential tower of 4B+G+35 , approximate 25mx40m is its typical floor area. say around 1000 sqm.

i am sure it will exceed the size you mentioned, i do expect something like 500-600 Mb file size. bcs i saw a G+12 building structural file is around 150 mb including rebars, and architectural is around 240mb.

so if i combine these two files together  it is too much.

if i split, what are the disadvantagous? how i can get connectivity for mep ducts and pipes to get full suystem. or it will affect my elevation?

Looking forward to hearing from your project experience.

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WWHub

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zak,

I just wanted to add that I worked in an architects office and MEP and structural were all outsourced.

The copy/monitor process is really pretty simple once you understand it and you regularly review your process.  It allows structural to control their elements while you get to see them (and control) your own copies of critical elements.  For example... steel columns.   The structural engineer would size and place these and you would copy/monitor those with like elements in your file.  Either of you can move the column but that movement is reported to the other for approval.  A rejection of the move would move it back if both parties agreed, acceptance would move your item automatically.  We updated our links on a weekly basis and reviewed c/m issues immediately.  Obviously, that time frame can be as often as required.

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zakazai

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Yeah i am getting used to it now.

what about quantity then?

i will have a structural column and a monitored column in architecture also. so will it disturb my 4D BIM of quantity?

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WWHub

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You write: "...i will have a structural column and a monitored column in architecture also..." .   No, you will only have one item.   It is a 'copy' of the element in the linked file.  In most instances, we would use the same column family element as structural.  In a typical architectural plan assuming you c/m'd all of the structural columns, you would have your columns on and set to your VG requirements but under the linked structural file, you would have their columns off.

In almost every project I worked on, columns were the only structural element we wanted a copy of to be able to control and monitor their location.  Other structural elements like beams, joists, fdn etc were in the linked file.  We turned those on as appropriate in our sections or whever we needed to see them.

Kepping the files seperate is faster and more accurate.  It doesn't require the coordination and special setup that Beau does since each project can have its own sheets, callouts, worksets schedules - etc.

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zakazai

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Now I am Stuck with structural beams.

this i cant copy monitor

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oliviawilliams

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thanks for sharing this

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Assignment Help

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hndhelp

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Thanks for your advices its going to be really helpfull

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HND Assignment help

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pablolomba

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Hi,

I'm totally agree with you. I'm from Spain, and we are quite a few steps behind you. We are always working in my company with the three disciplines separated. But when 'tech' advance and all workers are aware of using good working methods, working on the same model will be best for everyone.

But nowadays and in Spain, separate files.

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CaseyClements

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You absolutly don't want to model in the same file! 

Learn how to use copy monitor and link the files both ways.

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zakazai

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please give a solution for Beam.

i need to attach my walls  to bottom of beam/ cut my wall from beam.

give me a proper solution for that if you are that much confident.

we are consulting firm, and there will be variations many times, and we dont want to go each point and update the wall.

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