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Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Suddenly can't insert window in project............

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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 7:58:58 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#1

Hogmodo


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.........the window is in the project now.  When I try to insert a new one or copy that one to a new location, I get the can't create window in wall error message.  The window family and an image of the one that is in the project is attached.  Why would a window family stop working but have one of it stay in the BIM?  Thanks in advance for any advice.



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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:16:02 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#2

WWHub


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Did you try create similar instead of copy?


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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:22:28 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#3

Hogmodo


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Yes.  Same results.


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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:24:25 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#4

Hogmodo


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The definition of stupidity used to be doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.  In the computer age, stupidity is when you do the same thing over and over and you do get different results.  I have copied and mirrored this window numerous times in this project with no problems.  Now, I got problems doing the same thing I did before.  


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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:19:39 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#5

WWHub


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99% of the time with Revit most problems are eventually diagnosed as user error.

 

Is that a stacked wall you are trying to place the window in?  Try placing a simple wall somewhere and putting the window in that.


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:29:47 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#6

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Already did that and still won't work.  This is not a new window that won't insert.  It is a window that has successfully inserted into the same stacked walls, simple walls, etc. on this project over and over as the design has been developed.  The stacked walls have not changed.  I checked to make sure that the sill height had not defaulted to something different than the ones that have stayed inserted into the project.  I think I have tried all of the little thingies that have upset Revit in the past and have found nothing.

Nothing, that I did, has changed, no upgrades, no changes in the stack walls, no changes in the window.  It worked for a long time.  Now, inserting doesn't work and copying or mirroring the window or a create similar window does not work.

It will probably be something simple but darned if I can figure it out.

 


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:36:59 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#7

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I went back one day to an earlier save of the project and the window inserted just fine.  The client decided (for the second time) that he wanted to mirror the floor plan.  So the project mirrored east to west is the one I am having problems now inserting new versions of the window while "already inserted before the mirror" versions sit there in the project laughing at me. This is the second time this project has been mirrored.  No problems at all like this the first time.  Why would that be a cause now.

I know stacked walls can do wierd things in Revit.  Is mirroring one of those things that wierd out Revit?


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:40:50 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#8

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Another interesting detail:  I can move the windows already in the project to new locations with no problem.  As soon as I copy or mirror that window I can't the "can't create window" error message. The location and wall that I am moving and mirroring to is the same wall!


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 2:52:12 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#9

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I cannot exactly recreate your problem here, but common user error is faulty constraints. In your family, select the wall and change its thickness. You will notice that the window cannot be inserted in the wall thinner than 8”. Expend the error message to get faulty element ID #, which is the window sill (448184). On the Manage tab, Inquiry panel, you can select element by its ID. Fix the sill constraints (or temporally delete it to see how the window behave) and the problem should go away, unless there are other issues, but now you know how to troubleshoot. Good Luck.

 

Cheers


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:29:07 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#10

Hogmodo


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I already did a crude version of your suggestion and found the "offensive" element.  I deleted all of the "trim" and the window inserted just fine.  I then went back and deleted the trim one item at a time, tried inserting the window, until I found the "offending" item.  It is the little trapezoid shaped flat sill flashing that is intended to lay on top of the precast sill sweep that is in the stack wall.  CryingSee image.) Omit just that one item, the window inserts.  That item is in the windows that have stayed inserted into walls in this project too and they will move in that wall with no problems. So that is still a mystery.

Another wierd thing happened during all of this.  When I deleted the sill flashing, inserted the window into the project, some (not all) of the other jamb and head trim pieces had shifted to the interior 2".  In the window family, they were still on the surface of the wall just like they always were.  In the project, they moved 2" to the interior.  I had to shift them 2" into the family wall to get them to locate on the surface of the project wall.

So, deleting the "offending" sill flashing fixed one problem but created a new one. (How can that be user error?!?!) I have had stack walls do wierd things in the past but I thought Revit had fixed those problems.  Do windows with a bunch of added elements become wierd after you mirror the project more than one time?



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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:44:07 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#11

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So, I inserted the window with the sill flashing omitted, then shifted the trim into the family wall so all of the trim would appear flat on the project wall.  That is the window in the image on the north wall.  The window on the east wall WAS the original window WITH the now offensive trim that was existing in that wall with no problems.  So, I want all of my windows to be the same family so I did a "match type properties" to change that window to the new window type.  You can see the results.  That shift of some of the trim that I had to compensate for did not happen in that window.  So, the trim shifted 2" into the family wall in the family is 2" into the project wall on the right and on the surface of the wall in the top one.  They are "supposedly" the same window.

Can you see the "doing the same thing over and over and getting different results" conundrum here?  Or maybe I'm just delusional.  Is that it?



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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:45:51 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#12

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Wrong image.  Here are the two windows instead of the entire plan.



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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 4:01:01 PM | Hogmodo

#13

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Quoting Hogmodo from 2016-08-03 10:29:07

"

So, deleting the "offending" sill flashing fixed one problem but created a new one. (How can that be user error?!?!)

"

Again, faulty constraints. You barely use any ref planes, the backbone of any healthy family. I think you have only three of them. The lack of ref planes forces you to constraint geometry to other geometry (or using no constraints at all) instead of ref planes as it should be. That’s causing unpredictable behavior and that’s why deleting one element is causing to misbehave of other elements that were constrained to the deleted one.

Using nested families can minimize errors and make troubleshooting easier as well.


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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 4:36:50 PM | Suddenly can't insert window in project............

#14

Hogmodo


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You can tell that there are gaps in my family creating knowledge.  I can see that if I had created the window family more intelligently it would have been more stable.

Care to speculate on why it was stable for a very long time into the project and suddenly (after no changes to the family on my part) became unstable?  Mirroring the project one time caused no problems.  Did mirroring a second time tip this family over the edge?


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