Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Revit 2015 join wall to underside of floor and ceiling issue

SRMiller

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Joined: Fri, May 27, 2011
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Hi All,

I'm having a hit and miss issue when joining walls to the underside of floors and then ceilings. The attachments will help illistrate what I'm trying to achieve but in brief we have a project which has dropped ceilings to for service voids and rather than having to create another wall type to omit the plasterboard in the void I usually am able to join the wall to the upper floor and then the ceiling which then stops the plasterboard short. Other times I just get Revit warnings saying it can't keep the elements joined and will then usually drop the whole wall down to the ceiling height.

Generally the ceilings are drawn as sketches to the structural face of the walls and locked in place.

Any thoughts or alturnatives would be useful!

Steve

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WWHub

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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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You can not get Revit to attach a wall to both a ceiling and a floor in the same area.  This is described in your HELP.

Given the above, I don't see how you get the plaster board to stop at the ceiling but a seperate thin wall placed against the structural wall would do this and that would not cross service voids.  The question here is are you modeling for accurate take offs or could you just use edit cut profile in the detail views.

We sometimes like to unlock the drywall layer if one side is limited or the core layer if both sides are limited.   If one side is limited, you can attach to the upper limit and drag the drywall down.   If both sides are limited (must be same height) you have to attach to the lower limit and drag the core up. 

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SRMiller

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Hi WWHub,

Thanks for the comments.

Attaching the wall to both the ceiling and the floor is exactly how I achieved the finish to the walls in my attachments so not sure what is meant by them being "in the same area"?

I have had a colleague test it on a seperate project and he was also able to have a ceiling either side of the wall and then attach it to each wall and then to the floor above.

In terms of the desired outcome we are trying to achieve, we are using this project as a trial Level 2 BIM project (we're in the UK) so we'd like it to be as accurate as we can (as its more for experience). Personally I'm not a huge fan of the cut profile tool as I do find if anything moves it can through them out and they need re-doing. They aslo need to be done in both section and the detail view. I try to keep it as a last resort if I can't model it the way I need to and have a deadline to meet.

I've found it much quicker to to attach the walls as per the above... when it works that is!

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WWHub

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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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So .... I had never tested having a ceiling sketched to the wall core then attaching that wall to floor above and the ceiling.  Interesting but pretty clumbsy and not dependable. 

My test:

1. The model wall w/ gyp both sides through floor above & two ceilings - each the same length and sketched to wall core.
2. Join to floor, then right wall then left wall - IT WORKS!
3. Join to floor then left wall, then right wall - IT FAILS !

What is really strange is if the wall is pulled back to be flush with the end of the ceiling then it all FAILS.   If both ends of the wall are beyond the ceiling - it FAILS.

CONCLUSION - I thought you had shown us something we could use but this doesn't work on a consistent basis.   I would never do this.  If it must be modeled for material takeoff, I would consider a combination of walls with unlocked layers as appropriate and possibly with a stacked wall for upper area or I would use thin walls.   Thin finish walls would be easier to manage.

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Bartholomew

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If I understand correctly, you want the wall core to extend/attach to the floor or roof above, and the wall finish layers to extend to the dropped ceiling. We typically accomplish this by using the join tool. After attaching the wall to the high point, we select the dropped ceiling and join it to the wall. This cuts the intersecting finish layers and removes the finish layers above it. We’ve never had an issue doing this way, and it’s the way we’ve done it since we began using Revit. The only reason I can think of as to why it would fail is if the core of the dropped ceiling didn’t line up (perpendicularly) with the core of the wall.  Other than that, it works great. It never occurred to me that others maybe do it differently.

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SRMiller

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Hello again, firstly thank you both for your thoughts/comments, always good to get second opinions :-)

It's a shame this doesn't work a bit better as it seemed to be a good way of acheiving this. Your comments WWHub help explain why it will work on some but not all instances so we will move away from this process as it is not consistant enough to be workable in practice.

We will most likely either go down the stacked wall option or look at Bartholomew's comments.

Bartholomew, currently we have a floor, service void (i.e. an actual gap between the two), then the dropped ceiling. For your option do you add into your ceilings a "service void" layer which sits between the underside of the floor to the top of the ceiling? I've had a quick play about with this and that is the only way I've been able to get the walls/ceiling to join in this manor?

To help explain I've attached the ceiling as we currently have it with a void that shows the M&E ducts etc but when I join the 2 together I still get the plaster in the void. The other one has an extra layer added to the ceiling whcih when joined does omit the plaster in the void, however, the last one shows that we then can't view the M&E ducts.

Any comments would be appriciated.

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Bartholomew

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No, we don’t “add” a void into the empty space above the dropped ceiling.  Why would you?

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