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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:31:22 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#1

revitape


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r14...

The firm I am working for prefers to schedule windows individually, even if there are multiples ganged together. Therefore if you've got a single 2 x 3 double hung as "Type A" window, and then a triple window of the same size, they just tag and schedule that as 3 type A's, not a new window type. 

 

Obviously this makes things a little more complex in Revit. I made a new window family and nested the window I wanted which made up the triple double hung. I also made sure the windows were "shared" so they could be scheduled individually. 

 

My concern is that I can no longer make the parameters of the nested windows part of the parameters in the family they are nested. What's up with that? 

 

I attached an image of the triple window where the nested windows are not shared and one where they are shared. You can see it no longer gives me the option to use the parameters of the host family.



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141887_shared.JPG141887_nonshare.JPG

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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:39:38 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#2

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More specifically, my question is... do you really lose all parametric abilities of the nested families once they become "shared" or am I doing something wrong?


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:13:16 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#3

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Read this Help topic.  Remember, you need to create a new parameter for each parameter you need to control in the nested family.  Since these two families are really the same family, those new parameters will have to be unique - not the ones that control the host family. 


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:33:09 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#4

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With shared nested families, only instance parameters can be transferred to the parent family. You can change them to type ones you’re done with creating/associating new parameters in parent family.


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:36:41 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#5

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Yeah that's exactly what I thought but notice how the little grey button doesn't exist fo rmy nested families in that one image?

 

As I look closer it appears you can only use associated parameters with instance parameters of nested families. So that means for any family I nest in a hosted family, those parameters have to be instances to be controlled by associated parameters in the host?


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:44:47 PM | revitape

#6

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Quoting revitape from 2015-10-13 12:36:41

"

Yeah that's exactly what I thought but notice how the little grey button doesn't exist fo rmy nested families in that one image?

 

As I look closer it appears you can only use associated parameters with instance parameters of nested families. So that means for any family I nest in a hosted family, those parameters have to be instances to be controlled by associated parameters in the host?

"

Have you read my post?


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:00:59 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#7

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Ah yes, you must have replied in the time it took me to write mine PIJPIWO. 

 

Thank you for confirming that! Kind of a tedious operation to modify existing windows to nest but going forward it is something I will think harder about. 


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:17:32 PM | pijpiwo

#8

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Quoting pijpiwo from 2015-10-13 12:33:09

"

You can change them to type ones you’re done with creating/associating new parameters in parent family.

"

Sorry, what I wrote before is kind of confusing. You don’t need to change any parameters to type of course, you just make new parameters type during creation/association in the parent family. Hope it’s clear now.


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Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:25:51 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#9

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Yeah I gotcha! Thanks for clarifying though!


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Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:40:20 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#10

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Ok I've found another obstacle that makes this process less than smooth...

 

If you start with a window family template and "share" that, you cannot change the width and height to be instance params. Therefore when you bring your completed window into your project, it does not read the correct sizes from the nested window. 

 

Is the only way around this to start with a generic face based family which allows you to create the width and height parameters from the start and therefore allows you to make them instances?

 

This is a massive undertaking just to get windows to schedule properly...


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Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:15:08 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#11

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In the shared nested family, remove width and height OOTB parameters and create your own. Make them instance, call them whatever - you’re going to give them new names in the parent family anyway.


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Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:35:56 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#12

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Yes but the problem comes when you schedule them... You don't want to have "Window Width", "Transom Width", etc. in the schedule. You simply want "Width" and "Height".

 

So when the schedule reads W and H, it is not necessarily reading the correct numbers from the nested family. It is reading the original "width" number when I want it to read the new associated parameter. 

 

And of course you can't tell a Type parameter ("Width") to read an Instance parameter ("Transom Width") since the type and instance formulas can't overlap.

 

Is there a simple way around that I am missing?


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Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:24:25 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#13

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A couple of thoughs...

 

From any model or family, you can export shared parameters to a shared parameter file.   Using common shared parameters in families and assigned to elements in models allows for common scheduling.

 

And I think you are already aware that in a schedule, you can change the header of any parameter to anything... even the same name as other parameters.


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Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:40:46 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#14

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Correct... again here is the problem:

  • Host fam has "Width"parameter  which controls the width of the main window
  • Host fam has "Transom Width" parameter  which controls the width of the Nested transom window

When you bring this family into your project everything tags separately which is good and was hurdle #1. 

Hurdle #2 is now how the schedule reads this family. It recognizes the windows separately which is good. BUT, the Width category can only read the Width parameter from both the host and the nested family. The width parameter in the nested family is no longer relevant but it is still being read by the schedule. 

So the solution is either to add another column to the schedule which would read the transom width (though this could easily confuse contractors) OR my other solution of creating a completely new family from scratch and letting the Width parameter be an instance and therefore would always read correct in the schedule.   

Any other suggestions to have the schedule only have one window "Width" parameter and correctly read the hosts and nested families?


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Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:10:53 PM | Nesting Shared Families

#15

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aaaand I am back... 

 

So I used my method of starting with a generic face-based family for the nested family (a transom window), imported to the host family (the main window), associated and set all the parameters, brought it into the project, tagged then scheduled it... and here is what I found:

 

Revit still can't discern between differing types of the nested family. So while it can tag the different types of the host family differently (B4 & B5), it still tags the nested family the same (B3), even though the sizes of the nest are different. This completely screws up my original theory and I am back to square one. 

 

The only solution I see here is to just place transom windows in your project as their own family but this now means you are doing twice as much work (making sure they are aligned to the window below, getting the correct sizes, etc.)

 

Any other solutions??????



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