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Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> Room Separators and Wall Location Line

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Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 4:17:07 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#1

zsmith3


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Does a wall’s location line have anything to do with how Revit determines room-bounding ‘closure’? More specifically – within linked files?

 

We are having issues with a core and shell model not bounding rooms at some perimeters and stair cores. Yes, the model and the walls are set to room bounding. It seems to me that when you draw a wall, Revit lays down an embedded room separation aligned to the wall location line. You can see this when you grip edit the wall after drawing it (see images below).

 

 

It doesn’t appear to be a problem with walls drawn within a Revit project. But I’m wondering with linked files, does Revit take a ‘snapshot’ of the wall location lines and determine room separation from there?



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Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 5:27:46 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#2

WWHub


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This is answered in your HELP.

Try to use the help first....


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Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:44:15 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#3

zsmith3


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What in the world is your deal dude? If you would have taken the time to read my question, instead of hastily snapping at me to do something I OBVIOUSLY did, you would have noticed that I did in fact state that both the model and the walls are room bounding already. I suppose my post # implies inexperience with this software, but I can assure you that's not the case. So try again hot-shot. I'm asking about under-the-hood system family interaction involving heavily linked files.

Edited on: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 3:48:04 PM

Below is the source of the question, a room 'squirting' through a closed corner



Edited on: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 4:09:02 PM

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Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:47:57 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#4

itsmyalterego


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Rooms do not take into consideration wall location line, it's a face-based thing. For example, a modeled-in-place downspout sweep in the roof category will by default be a room-bounding object.

 

I would have led with your second image.  It's much more interesting than a demonstration of wall location lines, which are irrelevant to room calcs. It's hard to see what exactly is going on in that model, but it looks like a really screwed up wall join to me. seeing how it's a linked model (which I assume you don't contorl) I would cover for it with a hand-drawn location line and file it away as one of the many quirks your model will eventually have.


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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:11:59 AM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#5

zsmith3


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Thank you. The downspout analogy was helpful, it made me realize some joined/voided geometry I think was causing it. Plus auditing the links, I'm sure helped correct some quirks

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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 12:05:48 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

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WWHub


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My response was not a snapping answer.  Your original post says nothing about turning on room bounding of linked models.  If you had included that you had that setting on as you should have, then we could have seen that it may be a different issue BUT MY RESPONSE WAS TOTALLY CORRECT for the post you made.


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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:35:45 PM | zsmith3

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zsmith3


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Quoting zsmith3 from 2015-08-11 11:17:07

"

We are having issues with a core and shell model not bounding rooms at some perimeters and stair cores. Yes, the model and the walls are set to room bounding. It seems to me that when you draw a wall, Revit lays down an embedded room separation aligned to the wall location line. You can see this when you grip edit the wall after drawing it (see images below).

"

I suppose I could have said "Yes, the LINKED model and the walls..." But what other model would I be refering to, if not the link?

I think the fact remains that room separators are somehow embedded into walls. You can see it in properties when you grip edit. Yes, I agree that it's probably a face-based thing in most instances. So I wasn't attempting to solve a one-off issue. I was seeking to understand the nature of the interactions.



Edited on: Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:38:27 AM

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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:47:01 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

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zsmith3


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For the sake of argument - I made a 10' thick wall type, drew some walls, and linked it into another project. Brand new template, no quirks. Does not bound rooms at some corner situations. If it's truly a face based thing, how can this be?



Edited on: Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:48:01 AM

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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:20:49 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#9

WWHub


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I have no problem with the same setup.  See attached.

 

Is Room bounding turned on for walls in the link?

 

You don't cut any sections....do all walls extend down to the level plane?  If any of the walls don't completely intersct the work plane, the room will not be bounded.



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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 6:48:12 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#10

zsmith3


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1. Interior buildout has levels copy/monitored from core & shell, levels match.

2. Core and shell walls (orange elvator core) base constraint = ground floor, 0 offset, top constraint 1st floor, 0 offset.

3. Interior buildout walls (red) base constraint = ground floor, 0 offset, top constraint 1st floor, 0 offset.

4. Link is set to room bounding. Walls in link are set to room bounding. Interior buildout walls set to room bounding. Floors set to room bounding.

5. No walls profiles edited in either model. No walls are disallowed join in either model.

6. Both rooms on level ground floor, upper limit 1st floor, -1'-0" offset.

7. All worksets on, no hidden geometry, no unloaded links.

 

 



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Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 8:27:04 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#11

WWHub


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Please cut a large scale section through the unbounded room at the jusnction with the linked file and with both the host model's and linked model's grids on.  And look at the alignment of the levels.   It really doesn't matter that both models have the same levels and that one copy monitors the other.  What matters is where the wall is and it is very easy for someone to move a linked model up ever so little.


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Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:42:18 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#12

zsmith3


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No access to the model at the moment but I'll give it a shot


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Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 7:12:49 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#13

zsmith3


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Still no solution on this. I did as you said and cut sections at multiple areas where this is occuring. Zoomed way in, levels are aligned as far as I can tell. This particular wall is multi-story, but it's doing this at single story walls too, always at corners like this. I'm starting to thing it could possibly have to do with some of the slab edges. The one shown here is not cut, but in other areas the floors are cutting through stud layers. If I get some time this afternoon I'll see if I can isolate one of these areas.



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Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 7:46:44 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#14

WWHub


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I suggest you don't do a visual inspection of the levels.  Align/lock the linked file to your file. Even a 1/256" will cause a failure.

 

If any part of a wall has a wall sketch that brings the bottom up above the floor, the room will not be bounded.

 

If there is a curtain wall, it would have to be set to room bounding.

 

If there is an opening in the wall that extends below the level, the wall will not be room bounding.


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Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 9:18:59 PM | Room Separators and Wall Location Line

#15

zsmith3


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Since the error is consistantly appearing throughout the job with multiple wall types, on multiple stories, I'm begining to lean towards this being something of a level issue. But I did as you said, aligned and locked the link to my file, and the issue persists. I did it in multiple places. I've been checking/re-checking for the last hour, think it's about time to call it a Friday and give it a shot next week.


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