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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:04:32 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#1

Bimmer32


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I upgraded from 2011 to 2012 with a 500 MB Shell/Core and 380 MB buildout. We use Windows 7 64 bit, and we crashed all the time, literally. It has gotten to a boiling point of frustration because Autodesk has not been able to fix it. They admitted to experiencing the same problem when they tested our file, but nothing else.

Autodesk Subscription support has been useless. Let me repeat: Autodesk Subscription Technical Support has been USELESS despite over several hundreds megabytes of journal and dump files and 1 and a half month later. We have tried everything in the book; it appears that Revit 2012 has some serious memory and video management issues Despite the new features in 2012, this version of Revit is the worst so far.

Has anyone else experience Revit 2012 crashing with large files and 4+ people working? What steps have you taken to alleviate the crashing problem? Please make suggestions, and I will let you know if we have tried it or not, or even if it is possible for our workflow.


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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:48:39 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#2

itsmyalterego


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No problems here.  Revit crashes once or twice a month, for me.  About as common as any other program.

 

You say... 4+ people working on the project?   So you're working on work-shared projects over the network?  That shouldn't have much to do with the workstations are crashing.  And all of them are crashing independently??  Is it only while working on one file, or is it regardless of what you're working on?  What sort of computers do you have?

 

Oh-- 500mb shell, 380mb buildout... I didn't see that at first.  Those are HUGE files.  Make sure you're limiting what you've loaded with worksets, even a new 64bit machine will struggle really hard with that amount of information.  That's my best suggestion I think.

Personally, I haven't worked in a project over 200mb, total. 



Edited on: Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 4:52:24 PM

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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:28:31 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#3

Bimmer32


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We have  quad and eight core processors with 16 GB of memory each and 1 GB video cards (nvidia FX 3800 series). They all crash independently. Initially, we though we had a bad Revit 2012 install which may have been the cause, but after much experience, with Revit crashing with one or two worksets open, and with no linked files open, we were clueless.

Memory could read 9 to 12 GB out of 16 GB used, and it still crashes. It could not be any CAD files because Autodesk experienced the crash without the CAD files.

With or without Windows 7 64 bit sp1, it still crashed.

It crashes with the latest video driver.

It crashes when you begin to draw a drafting line or a fill region. There is no clear pattern to the crashes other than our productivity going down the drain and frustration high in the sky.

It crashes so hard that the journal file shows that Revit asked to save a recovery file, but in actuality, Revit 2012 simply shuts down with no warning or messages.

Before we upgraded from 2011, we did not have any problem. The next day after the upgrade to 2012 was when the crashing began. It seems to crash less when we work on dependent views versus parent views. It crashes less if we do not have the linked in Shell/Core open. The typical Windows message is, "Revit fails to respond." Then that is it when it crashes.

I am not seeing any value out of Autodesk SDLC (software development life cycle) or their subscription technical support since they have not been able to do anything for us.


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Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:46:37 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#4

itsmyalterego


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Those computers sound exactly like ours.  Since you're pushing the upper limit of recommended file size, (what kind of building is this, anyway..?)  I think your best bet is limiting what worksets revit loads from the outset.    If dependent views are better, and not having the linked files loaded helps, it just seems like revit is hitting some sort of glass ceiling for memory or graphics demands, even if task manager shows more available.    Sounds like this is real flaw you've found with 2012 -- I'm sure autodesk is investigating it, but the vast majority of us/their customers aren't going to be making such demanding projects, at the same time.

 

I would toggle your graphics options, turn off 3D acceleration and anti-aliasing.   See if that helps by any chance (it can't hurt)  And I would also do an audit and compact the central a few times, if you don't don't do it regularly.  

 

 


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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:43:53 AM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#5

Bimmer32


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I am glad you are mentioning the above things to do. It will let others know that there are some very serious issues with 2012 other than the materials library crashing mentioned in other threads.

I audit and compact regularly. We (our team) have toggled with the graphics option as well. This is a large hospital building. On top of the two files, we have upwards of 400-500 MB of consultant files that we link in and open when we need. We have Revit 2012 to specify worksets before opening the file and a drafting view as a startup screen. Revit 2012 still crashes even with only a few worksets open. Workset are divided up by level and Linked Files.

We went through the whole project to clean up Revit warnings. We purged unused. On two computers, we noticed that just going to draw a detail line causes Revit 2012 to crash. And the crashes are never repeatly was the same procedure. It crashes randomly on the same computer. That's what makes this issue so perplexing. Before Revit crashes, it sometimes grays out and than a Windows message about "Revit stopped working" or sometimes, Revit shuts down without warning.

The error message has something to do with Revit and Windows 7 for sure. Revit is patched with Update 1 and Windows 7 with SP1.

I agree that it is a major flaw in Revit 2012. There are many companies out there that use Revit on large projects. And in the previous version (2011), it was quite solid and stable. The conversion from 2009 to 2010 was rockly but not this bad. Autodesk said they even have their global team on the issue, but they still cannot pinpoint the exception error code.

I am seeking help from the Revit communities to see if anyone has experience similar issues. At this point, Autodesk is has no answer.


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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:48:49 AM | Bimmer32

#6

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Quoting Bimmer32 from 2011-09-19 17:28:31

"

We have  quad and eight core processors with 16 GB of memory each and 1 GB video cards (nvidia FX 3800 series). They all crash independently. Initially, we though we had a bad Revit 2012 install which may have been the cause, but after much experience, with Revit crashing with one or two worksets open, and with no linked files open, we were clueless.

Memory could read 9 to 12 GB out of 16 GB used, and it still crashes. It could not be any CAD files because Autodesk experienced the crash without the CAD files.

With or without Windows 7 64 bit sp1, it still crashed.

It crashes with the latest video driver.

It crashes when you begin to draw a drafting line or a fill region. There is no clear pattern to the crashes other than our productivity going down the drain and frustration high in the sky.

It crashes so hard that the journal file shows that Revit asked to save a recovery file, but in actuality, Revit 2012 simply shuts down with no warning or messages.

Before we upgraded from 2011, we did not have any problem. The next day after the upgrade to 2012 was when the crashing began. It seems to crash less when we work on dependent views versus parent views. It crashes less if we do not have the linked in Shell/Core open. The typical Windows message is, "Revit fails to respond." Then that is it when it crashes.

I am not seeing any value out of Autodesk SDLC (software development life cycle) or their subscription technical support since they have not been able to do anything for us.

"

When upgrading a Revit file you should always do at least a day of testing prior to continuing, especially one of that size - should have been a good indicator to revert back if you got crashing the next day.  9-12GB of 16GB is about the limit of what Revit will asborb so it is hitting a ceiling.  I'd look at 24GB RAM.

Instability can be caused by many factors:

  • Unsupported graphic drivers, (try disabling hardware acceleration completely - in windows not just revit)
  • Having too much open at once (use worksets open control - which sounds like you already are)
  • Having a lot of items in your "Review Warnings", (this can definitely lead to instability)
  • Having corrupt views or families (do an audit of your file - probably already have)
  • Always ensure you content is good quality,
  • Avoid/limit DWG and ADSK imports in families,
  • Sometimes the network environment/antivirus can cause issues as well, if the crashing occurs when saving this may be a culprit,
  • Consider breaking your two files up further keeping them at 300MB max individual file sizes
  • Purge un-used or not needed families from the library,
  • Delete un-usued or needed views.

I'd be interested to see the scale of the project as with smart file management you can do very very large projects (casino, hospital) and achieve much lower file sizes than that.


-----------------------------------

Regards,

Chris.

Co-Founder | BIM Consultant | Software Designer  CryingB. Arch)

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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:47:24 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#7

Bimmer32


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These are very good advices! Thank you very much. I tested the upgrade for two+ days without a hiccup. Also, the upgrade was smooth error free with exception of a mechanical file (We still crash without the mechanical link open). What was not tested was in a team environment with more than 2 people. That does not negate the fact that everything was working fine in the version 2011.

The project file is not perfect, but most team members are doing best practices when modeling. We have done the first four bullets you mentioned. Some Contents are questionable but nothing out of the ordinary. We have also done the last two bullets mentioned. Revit crashes randomly but more often when the linked in Shell/Core is opened. So we think it has something to do with the Shell/Core file. Well, there are 6 people on that file and none have crash frequency as the buildout team. On certain days, the crashes occur more often than other days. The same individual may crash 7 times on one day but not crash at all on another day. The individual was doing the same or similar task in the project.

This is a large hospital project with curtain walls modeled in 4' segments each because there are multiple radius on a single level. We picked up the design after DD. Autodesk has no qualms with it, though I might have modeled it differently.

The SF is nearing 300,000 with MEP, structural, furniture, and equipment in Revit (separate files). There is also a garage.

 


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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:19:32 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#8

alabaster2513


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oops, nvm

 

http://bim9.com/

 



Edited on: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:32:08 PM

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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:28:45 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#9

WWHub


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Do you have a lot of imported or linked CAD files?  How well have you managed those?  It could be that someone has introduced something since you coverted to 12.


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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:26:53 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#10

Bimmer32


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As of this writing, I am looking into linked files (CAD or Revit). I think there is a corruption in the database and not the CAD or linked Revit files themselves. NO CAD file changed or updated since the switch over to 2012. Autodesk was able to replicate the crash without the CAD or Revit files. They only have Shell/Core and Buildout to test, and they were able to replicate the crash in their environment.

I removed all links. I saved the file. Then I did an audit on the next open, and it crashes 3 times in a rows!! I also had remove all sheets, drafting views, and schedule prior to the audit. I have since FTP the file to Autodesk with my journal files. Let's see what they find out.


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Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:33:07 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#11

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i'm pretty interested to see what they find. maybe a bad family causing the event.


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:59:55 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#12

rqtecht


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We are having the same issue here.

Based on our troubleshooting, it has something to do with the linked files.

We have 4 smaller files but are linking the units into the individual buildings.

Without the units linked = no problem.

With units linked = crash

Sounds very similar to Bimmer32. Nothing in particular cause the crash. Could be drawing a line, panning, dragging an object. The action seems random. However, as noted above, when the unit links are not involved, everything seems to run smoothly.

@Bimmer32 : do you have an update on your status?


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:28:22 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#13

Bimmer32


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Autodesk has not given me an answer or solution.Rqtecht is on the spot. The problem is with linking in other Revit 2012 files. As long as the linked files are being access and changed, the original file will continue to crash. In other words, the buildout file will continue to crash as long as the shell/core team is continually working away. The Buildout file has the live Shell/Core linked in.

When I detached the Shell/Core and linked in the detached file into the Buildout, there were no crashes. But as soon as I modify the detached Shell/Core file, someone on the buildout team will crash if they have the linked Shell/Core workset open.

The sudden crashes will cause other issues mentioned before that may make you thing Revit 2012 cannot handle large files. In some aspect, Revit 2012 cannot handle linked larged files.

We have a 50 MB files with a linked in 500 MB file, and that caused the 50 MB file to crash because someone was making changes to the 500 MB. This can be repeated over and over again in Revit 2012 Update 2.

Our workaround at this time, is to detached and link in a "dead" Shell/Core file. Treat our internal Shell/core team as a consultant.


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:22:41 PM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

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AldoBIM


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Hi Bimmer, this is our story.  We are currently working in one of the biggest BIM projects (1.6 million sq.ft.) and we have 75 models from all disciplines (arch, struc & MEP) with live links between models of the same discipline and between models of different disciplines.  We have 2.21 GB of arch models, 606 MB of struc models and 2.1 GB of MEP models. Everything worked pretty smoothly in Revit 2011 then the architectural team started to have steady random crashes right after we migrated the project to 2012, so basically it is your same story.  We have a case logged with Autodesk Subscription but the only suggestion they have is to work with dead links, which we all know means big coordination issues and low add value in working with Revit.

 

What concerns me is that these crashes are not seen at all with live links in Revit MEP 2012 and Revit Structure 2012, but are only seen by architects working with Revit Architecture 2012.  So these crashes might as well be caused by a software flaw inside Revit Architecture 2012 alone. Seeing that Revit MEP 2012 has an “Architect” ribbon tab with all Revit Architecture tools, what if you tested for all the Revit community to work on your arch models using Revit MEP 2012 (with Update2)?  It’s worth the try for it might get rid of the crashes.  Autodesk told me that no adverse effect has been reported by modifying Revit models of one discipline with Revit software of other disciplines.

 

We could do the testing but we have 22 arch models being modified by 100 or so architects, so it’s a little more complicated as you can imagine.

 

Please let us know if this helps,

 

Regards.

 


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Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 6:35:03 AM | Revit 2012 Crashes Random but everyday

#15

Bimmer32


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Fortunately for us, our projects are nearing the end of CD, so linking in dead detached copies of the file works without crashing, but that does defeat the purpose of a live collaboration. In short, Autodesk development team is stumped and don't know what to do. Our MEP consultant did not have any issues (they did not report any with us). We do not have any Revit MEP license to try, and we cannot post the project publicly for the community.We were able to pinpoint to this issue with the given environment:Both are architectural files.Both are linking each other.Both are on the same folder directory on the same SAN device (and server).When someone in Shell/Core saves to central (and it takes about 3-5 minutes), one or more persons on the buildout file will crash when they have the Shell/Core workset open (with the linked Shell/Core file link open). It is as if the buildout file times out and throws a memory fault.On a similar note, when we detach preserve worksets and audit the Shell/Core file, it crashes every time.What I would like to know from the community: Is there anyone working in Revit 2012 (large project starts out in Revit 2012) and  linking in large files without crashes? We are currently not taking any chances with new large projects. Please share your experience.


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