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Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:37:19 AM | Revit Implementation

#1

erickson1026


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Joined: Thu, Apr 29, 2010
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Hello all,

I have been going through countless tutorials and blogs and forums lately trying to educate myself about the fundamental requirements for transitioning an office from the classic AutoCAD 2d format to the BIM delivery method. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the more I study BIM delivery versus classic 2D delivery (which I have been using for 20 years) the more it seems I need to learn about this new project delivery method.

It seems that the initial method of construction documentation using BIM can be integrated with 2d CAD delivery.  My main concern is that in the heat of a deadline crunch in an office, I do not want to be saddled with "I don't know how to..." or "It was a lot easier in AutoCAD to do....(insert command here)".  The temptation to jump ship and go back to the old way is tempting.

With that being said and being an admitted novice to BIM delivery I am eager to learn about any tricks you have for documenting your projects that would help an office transition between BIM modeling and 2D drafting.

For instance...

  1. Using Model Lines locked to the roof plan view (set as an underlay, then turned off) to show an overhead roof line.  Simple technique to quickly show what is necessary.  There may be a much more advanced method using View Range, but again I am interested in quick solutions to typical drafting techniques.
  2. Drafting Views for importing 2D standard library details.

Any additional thoughts/clarifications on this topic are welcomed.

 

 

 


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Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:10:17 PM | Revit Implementation

#2

WWHub


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For successful implementation, you don't want CAD deliverables unless demanded.  There is no reason for that because documentation from Revit is far easier (and superior) to CAD.

 

Your concern about "It was a lot easier in AutoCAD to do....(insert command here)".  The temptation to jump ship and go back to the old way is tempting." ... is very valid.   Diehard CAD users can sabotage (sometimes intentional) your efforts.  Implementation of Revit demands a top down ... everyone on board approach. 

 

Don't start Revit on a large project with early deadlines.  You need to grow a couple of users into it.  Power users are necessary to support others until they reach a compentency level.  DO get some training for all users.  We started by sending a core group for training, who used the product on a few small jobs before they in tern trained other staff.

 

Your questions:

  1. NO - Don't do this.  Model lines are 3 dimensional.  You need 2D linework for this.  Learn to use your HELP.  It will tell you how to show overhead objects in plans.  Search < overhead >
  2. CAD can really bog down your system and legacy details tend to be poorly drafted and quit often wrong.  But at the beginning, all offices want to use them.  Search and read posts on how to clean up CAD drawings before inserting into Revit.  You can do this initially, but I recommend all details become fully Revitized over time.

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Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:36:15 PM | Revit Implementation

#3

erickson1026


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Thanks WWhub,

You are correct in your responses indeed.  And just to be clear I am not the one who would be ready to jump ship back to CAD, but in the transition between the two project deliveries I need to be armed with the necessary responses to keep folks using Revit.

Ultimately all details would need to be "Revitized" but in the interim between that ultimate goal and the present, the ability to bring in legacy details from AutoCAD could buy me/us the necessary time to do just that.  If we waited until all the details are ready to go, then we would never get going.

A few of the techniques I mentioned are from this forum, but I will continue to research other means of documenting a project.   Stay tuned.

 

 

 

 


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Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:38:17 PM | Revit Implementation

#4

AbsoluteBIM


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I started in Revit a little over a year ago and have slowly worked through all of our company's standard CAD details to "revitize" them. I originally just used the "Import Cad" feature to get the details in and usable and then whenever I had time, I cleaned up the linework and leaders. Now the are all done and are kept in a seperate file, in seperate views which can be easily dropped in to any project.

I agree with WWHub is starting small and starting with the right people. An open minded person will accept that Revit is not AutoCAD more easily which makes learning much easier.

Good luck, once you guys get into Revit, you'll never want to go back.



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Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:56:18 PM | Revit Implementation

#5

itsmyalterego


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extremely prescient of you.  And WWhub was right -- Diehard CAD users don't want to be novices again, to learn something new and feel like they're obsolete, so they'll fight to prove cad is still better. 

 

Story time.

 

Even after our firm had two small projects under our belt, we hired two new married hotshot architects... who went to an artsy school and only knew cad.  (and weren't particularly good at that either)  They showed up, and the wife took control of a project we designed in revit for a proposal, had won, and were moving forward with in revit.  They were both EXTREMELY uncomfortable with learning something new and not feeling in charge.  So, they wanted to move the project to CAD for their own sake.  We all threw up our hands, said "#*&$ it, fine." And I prodded her for about a week, offering to talk about the project as it stood in revit, and what amount of it could be useful if exported to cad.  I kept getting brushed off.  Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow... 

 

And THEN, under the cover of darkness, on a weekend, she got her HUSBAND, (who was drowning managing a different project) to draft up elevations in cad instead of employing the drafters, or even having the humility to ask for revit exports of the elevations, which would have taken me no more than 5 minutes. The irony is the he totally fucked up, getting the roof pitches reversed between an atrium and the flatter longitudinal roof, AND, to draw the cad elevations, he used the revit drawings in the CONCEPTUAL PACKET!   Literally, the paper packet was sitting on his desk, and he was using 2 month old, printed perspective renderings.... from a program that could export exact CAD. 

 

And then they were all sanctimonious martyrs about how they weren't getting any help and how they were working so hard and they did what had to be done since revit wasn't working. 

 

They eventually got fired/quit/driven out after 6 months, and we submitted 95% last week, after moving the project back to revit after 6 months of pointless limbo in their arrogance.  

 

This is a good example of the sort of maneuvering people could go through to keep things "their way." 

 

We're now 100% invested in revit, except for one lingering problem project, which, if anything, illustrates how useful revit would have been. 

 

Good luck.  The biggest problem you'll have at first is getting nice looking sheets.  Learning how to control visibility in VG, and with View templates, cut planes and view depths, object styles-for global line widths for categories. 

 

 


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Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:51:17 AM | itsmyalterego

#6

vector25



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Joined: Wed, Jun 15, 2011
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Quoting itsmyalterego from 2011-07-15 13:56:18

"getting nice looking sheets.  Learning how to control visibility in VG, and with View templates, cut planes and view depths, object styles-for global line widths for categories." 

 

this is worth giving a lot of thought to..


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Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:34:03 PM | Revit Implementation

#7

brettgoodchild


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Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
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There is more to a successful BIM implementation than just learning to use the software. A lot of firms get into a rut of running a REVIT implementation and not a BIM implementation.

 

Yes the applications are a vital part to a good BIM implementation since they are the tools to get you there, but you will need to focus equally on the entire workflow process. The paradigm shift to BIM REQUIRES a different workflow which may include getting drafters and techs that can design and understand how buildings go together. It means more communication and collaboration up front and it means that at the onset of a project, all deliverables MUST be discussed because what happens in that building for OM, FM and AM WIL affect how and what you model and what information would need to be included and how early you need to include it.

 

Learning and using Revit, or any other BIM application, is only half of the equations.


-----------------------------------

"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today. "
                             ~ Abraham Lincoln

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Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:53:42 PM | Revit Implementation

#8

coreed


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i think the buzz pharse is IPD (Intergrated Project Delivery).


-----------------------------------

best regards,

coreed,aia

bmpArchitects,Inc.

"Revit has to be implemented, Not installed." 

Long Live Revit

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