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Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

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Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:25:06 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#1

silo7


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I've had a bit of a nightmare this afternoon whilst trying to update a revit project and I'm wondering if anyone else has had similar problems. After spending a hour or so moving walls about I saved the file back to central and closed it to do something else. When I reopened the file, some but not all of the previous changes had reverted to their pre-update position and some walls were just plainly somewhere completely new. This happened two or three times on two different floors. I ran out of time eventually but before I left the office we rebuilt the central file on the assumption that it had somehow got corrupted. We'll find out next week if this has fixed the issue. Anyone else ever had this happen or know what to do about it?

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Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:08:31 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#2

WWHub


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I would look at other users and make sure they are not over-writing the central.


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Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:05:20 AM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#3

silo7


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ok, I'll check that but I don't think they are due to the fact that some of the alterations I'd made were saved but some weren't. I'm going to start time-stamping by local file in future so I can go back to an earlier version if the problems occurs again.

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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44:54 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#4

guertink


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I am experiencing the same sort of issue with walls and wall openings disappearing/moving to original locations.

Have you found the cause of this or has Autodesk responded/acknowedged this problem exists?


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 4:03:51 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#5

WWHub


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99.99% of the time, errors like this are user errors.  Walls don't move by themselves, users move them.  The principle cause of that is users not paying attention to the "funnel" selection and they select and move items. 

 

Always look at your selction set when choosing anything!  Because this is BIM and not CAD, you have multiple items that may reside in the same place - and you may not see them all.  A floor/wall may hide items below/behind the floor/wall that you can still select using a crossing or a window.


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 4:28:33 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#6

guertink


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I agree with what you say and have experienced what you say about grabbing things you don't see and performing unintended operations on them.

What we are experiencing here is something completely different.  We have cases where walls were moved due to an engineer's markup and confirmed they were moved the following day, then when printed out for back check several days later and they had moved back to their original locations. 

Likewise with wall openings.  We have added/moved/resized various wall openings thru shear walls for baggage handling conveyors, printed them out for back check the next day, confirmed they were correct, but when we printed and issued the drawings several days later and they can back rejected from the customer because the wall openings were in the wrong place.  Upon opening and inspecting the model, they had indeed reverted to their old locations!!  Wall openings are difficult to manipulate and somehow by accidental manipulation they went back to exactly where they were before is highly improbable.

There is something going on with walls in a shared Revit environment. 

I am suspecting that old walls are somehow making their way back to the central file from someone's local file in the shared model environment because Revit is not locking them out properly. 

 


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 4:44:20 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#7

WWHub


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Again, this is not a Revit issue of "Revit is not locking them out properly".  This is user error. 

 

If you are using linked models, pay attention to that link.

 

One possibility is that someone may be loading from a local file rather than the network location.  Make sure the latest file is saved in the network location and the path is correct.

 

Also, look again at your copy/monitor process and make sure you are correctly handling changes made through this process.


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 5:02:13 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#8

guertink


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What we can agree on is that somehow old data is making its way to the central file.

We use Revit server so it is improbable that someone is accidentally overwriting the central file with an old one as you need to use Revit Server Administrator to do that and few users have that program and by virtue of using that program to overwrite the central file means presumably you have permission to do that and know what you are doing - so we can rule that out.

I don't understand how, in the shared environment, someone could overwrite new wall locations with the old wall locations if the central file is keeping track of what is old and what is new?

We are not using copy/monitor and link in architectural CAD files for our backgrounds - so there is no architectural model involved.

We do link in other structural models adjacent to our building (this is Revit structure we are talking about), but they do not contain any of our model info.

Is this scenario possible - someone opens the model by clicking on the local file thumbnail on the Revit opening screen and somehow old data gets written to the central file?

 


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 5:41:47 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#9

WWHub


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There is no "old" vs "new".  Revit doesn't keep track like that.... it is only new.  The old is in the roll-back files.

 

Everyone's local is just their snapshot of the central when they saved last time.  If a wall was moved later by someone else, theis user can NOT move a wall that was moved in the central - it is locked.  When they save to central, those changes made by others will be shown in their set and the lock will then be removed.

 

So you need to look at this differently.



Edited on: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:55:17 PM

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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:27:16 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#10

guertink


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So then, a local file, that is two days behind the central file, is opened from the Revit opening screen and syncronized with the central file, anything that is different in the local file will not be written to the central file?


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:36:10 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#11

WWHub


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If a user changes something in his local file, does not save to central and then he saves and closes his local file, then these changes will not be published to the central.  If these changes involve existing elements, then those items will be locked in the central.  When this same user, opens his local file (no matter how old), those changes will be published and his file will be updated to all new changes by others.

 

Offices often have problems when users make changes that they don't publish and the locks are there.  This can be over-come but that requires someone to either create a new central or to assume this users identity and release those locks.  In either of these cases, the user's local file will no longer sinc with the central and he will have to create a new local.


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:11:32 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#12

guertink


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Everything you say I concur with thru our own experiences re: locks left behind, etc. as this is how Revit is suppose to behave if someone closes out without saving to central after making changes.

What is happening, however, is not how Revit is 'suppose' to behave.  ‘Old’ data is getting back into the central file, and I say ‘old’ because walls and wall openings will appear as they were before they were changed - as if they got back there somehow from an ‘old’ (previous version) of the file.  

Walls and wall opening changes have been made, saved to the central file, and then 1 - 3 days later, they are back to their ‘old’ locations.  There is no way this could happen accidentally by someone inadvertently including them in a selection set for a move or delete, for instance.

This is really odd because from what we can tell, it is ONLY happening with walls and wall openings (individually and combined), and no other elements, just like the guy in the original post said.

Is there any 'normal' scenario you can think of where this could happen (meaning not a failure of Revit's data integrity features)? 

 


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:17:16 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#13

WWHub


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Revit does not - can not - do this.  Someone is writing over your central file!  <<  THIS IS ABSOLUTLY CORRECT

 

You need to look at your process.  If people are opening the central file each day, they may not be creating a new local and when they save, it will over-rite the central.

 

Make sure the walls / openings you are talking about, reside in this file - not in a linked file.


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Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:37:01 PM | Walls moving/ disappearing ?!

#14

guertink


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you wrote:

"If people are opening the central file each day, they may not be creating a new local and when they save, it will over-rite the central."

Wow, that would explain it, are you absolutely sure? 

This seems like a huge hole in Revit's version control system.

I will test this and get back.


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