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Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:19:40 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#1

snowyweston


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Our office is starting out on quite a large scheme enclosed by an elliptical perimeter wall - with the design/construction presently at the point where the intent is to maintain a smooth curving brick facade for the outer skin, and a faceted (to timber dimensions) internal skin.

 

Having worked with ellipses in Revit before, (but never on such a scale of size or complexity) I was quite nervous of the design, mainly down to the number of "Revit can/can't" conversations I was going to have with my office peers who look to me for a great number of answers.

 

My proposal seemed sound, model an extruded ellipse mass and host to face - which has sufficed so far with work up to design concept and planning - but now the work's moving forward and despite being keen to keep as much in Revit as can be I just keep drawing a blank on how to go about it.

 

I've just been experimenting with using two-concentric ellipse extrusions in the same mass, one to handle the face-placement of the smooth exterior, the other to handle the interior wall - for which I thought to use a curtain system (to keep it faceted) but straight away the inability to use basic wall type in a curtain system (?) stumped me. Then I used the curtain system's panel faces to "pick" the placement of a (basic) internal wall type - which (once the curtain system is hidden from views and filtered out of schedules) gave me nearly what I needed.... but....

 

Inserting windows (and doors) in either the exterior or interior "skin" wall doesn't allow me to use any combination of cut/join modifying tools to cut both walls with the elements, as per the attached jpeg.

(green=mass, red=ext. skin wall, blue=int. skin wall, black=curtain panels)

 

 

I guess we could coordinate openings in one of the walls to follow the openings in the other; but before I propose as much (to the cries of disbelief that will only fuel dissatisfaction with Revit) I wanted to ask here if anyone might know a better method I might employ for such a task?

 

Here's hoping...



Edited on: Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:20:18 PM

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Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:56:57 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#2

WWHub


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Why use a true ellipse, are you a purist?  When we drafted, we never drew a pure ellipse because you really can't.  They are also hard to define for construction. 

 

So why do it?

 

When we hand drafted you created a very nice "visual" ellipse using just two different radius curves.  Very easy to draw, define and REVIT can handle these.  

 

Nobody will ever know the difference !!!!


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Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:18:42 AM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#3

snowyweston


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I'd like to think I was a purist, but there's nothing pure about THIS ellipse, it's exceptionally contrived and nothing like anything I would design. But despite me thinking it'll end up looking like a dogs dinner, my director, the "designer" in-charge, is adamant.

As such I still need a solution, so I'm curious for a bit of clarity on what you mean by "two different radius curves" especially given this part of your post :"Very easy to draw, define and REVIT can handle these.".

 

Thanks


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Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:13:31 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#4

WWHub


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When we hand drafted and needed an ellipse (before templates '60's), we always used an approximation as described in the first link below. 

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/76200/76201/76201_ellps_4cntr.htm

This link shows how close an appromation is to a real ellipse - note that very long, thin ellipses donot work as well.

 http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/MATHALGO/Ellipses.HTM

 


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Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 3:04:41 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#5

snowyweston


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Their heads will explode when they open those links!   : D

So your suggestion is to build an approximated-ellipse mass family and continue that way?

Or draft / use a linked .dwg that follows those approximation-methods for wall placement?

 


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Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:06:39 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#6

WWHub


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Yes, if you can use simple arcs, Revit works fine.... and I always prefer placing walls rather than starting with a mass.  Seems stupid to me to use a mass unless you are doing massing studies.

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Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:12:08 PM | Elliptical wall design causing headaches (2011)

#7

mbsteve


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I ditto the approach that WW has put forward. And as for the pour fellow that will have to build it he will do as WW, has suggested.

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