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Forums >> Revit Structure >> Technical Support >> AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

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Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:24:41 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#1

fleming3310x


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I have a couple of questions regarding roof joists and joists in general..

1.) How do I get my bar joists to show up as a single line in plan view when the view is set to fine? I have joist end extensions and they will not show up in course... The architect we are working with is complaining about seeing the top chord angles in the plan view and I do agree it looks very sloppy..

2.) I need a double pitched bar joist and I have tried everything I know to place an slh series joist and it will not allow me to do so.. I even tried to just use a truss and modify its parameters but have had zero luck...


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Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 1:57:20 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#2

BigD


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As for part 1, you can open Visibility/Graphics Overrides while in your plan view, change the Detail Level for Structural Framing to "Coarse" instead of "By View".  As you say, the joist end extensions won't show at the Course Detail Level.

As for part 2, I'm not sure what the issue might be.  I've used double pitched joists before and don't remember having issues.


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Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:12:41 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#3

seniorcad143


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So has anyone figured out questin 1.) above.  I had asked this also with no complete answer unless it can not be done.  I would like the joist extensions to show up on plan as a single line.  If I set it in course it does not show the extension, in fin and medium it shows the angles of the top chord and I do not want that.  I don't wnat to draw the extension with a detail line on top of the joist.

 

Is there a solution?


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Yeesh - Where is My Cad

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Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:03:53 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#4

BigD


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Good news! Yea, you can do this.

I just did it with a simple K series joist.

Here's the steps:

  1. Open a joist family to Edit
  2. Save As, and give it a different file name (ex. K Series Joist with End Extensions.rfa)
  3. Open the TYPE Properties and change the End Extensions to make them 24" (or any dimension really.  goal is to get the reference lines to move.)
  4. Now, when you're in the Plan View, you should be able to see which Reference Lines control the length of the Extensions.
  5. You should be able to see a couple of WIDE Symbolic Lines in the plan view.  (It will look like only 1 line, but there are 2 stacked on top of each other)  Hold your cursor over those lines, and use the tab key to select the one that is "Structural Framing [Projection].  You'll notice that each end of that Symbolic Line is LOCKED to a Reference Plane.  Unlock each end of the line and drag the ends out to the Reference Planes that control the Extension, and LOCK them.  (you may have to use the ALIGN command).       (Another trick for getting the right symbolic line selected is:  in plan, using a Crossing Window to select EVERYTHING.  The click the Filter Button and uncheck everything excecpt the one that says "Lines (Structural Framing).  That's the one that you want to edit.
  6. You're done.  Save it and Load it into a project.  Should work great.

The Symbolic Lines in the family are the single line that you see in Course View of a Plan.  And the behavior of that Symbolic Line is dictated by which Reference Planes it's ends are locked to.

Let me know how it goes.  I could easily fix a family for you and upload it, but it would be better if you could figure out how to do it.  Really good learning experience.



Edited on: Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:45:17 PM

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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:15:38 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#5

seniorcad143


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OK - I tried it - I failed.

 

I picked the line and unlocked, but when I go to align it with the reference line it keeps selecting a different line.  And you can not tab to select the line you want to extend.

 

Any advice?



Attached Images

99656_joist_-_a.jpg99656_joist_-_b.jpg

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Yeesh - Where is My Cad

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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:24:02 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#6

BigD


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Which family are you trying to edit?  LH?  SLH?


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:37:12 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#7

seniorcad143


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Actually K-series.  Is that wrong?  I just clikced on one in my project and said "Edit Family".


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:13:41 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#8

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Nah, it's not wrong.  I just thought that I would go ahead and fix whichever one that you need and upload it.  If that's cool with you, just say which one.


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:51:18 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#9

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Nah, it's not wrong.  I just thought that I would go ahead and fix whichever one that you need and upload it.  If that's cool with you, just say which one.


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 7:41:10 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#10

seniorcad143


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it is the rod one - but I would also really like to know how to do it.  Once you learn a few secrets other problems we cross might seem a little easier (I hope).


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 7:56:09 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#11

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OK, try this.  With the family open in the Plan View,

Open the Visibility Graphics dialogue box (type VV)

On the Model Categories tab, turn off Hidden Lines, Rigid Links & Web Joists, click OK.

Now there's only ONE symbolic line showing, and it's the one you need to edit.  Follow the steps that I gave you before for editing the ends of that line.

Have fun and let me know how it goes.  I'll be around for about 2 more hours today.


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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:14:31 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#12

seniorcad143


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OK this is what I got when I did this. (Below)

I did the crossing thing and filtered out everthing except the structrual framing lines (2 of them) and this is what I have left.  Those are the two lines for the angled web members.

 

Ugh!!!



Attached Images

99681_joist_-_d.jpg99681_joist_-_e.jpg

-----------------------------------

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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:45:37 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#13

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Suggestions:

  1. Turn off the Thin Line Mode.  That will make it easier to see and select the Symbolic Line which is WIDE.
  2. Edit the Symbolic Line in PLAN VIEW, not Elevation View.
  3. With the PLAN VIEW open, type "V V" . . . . which will bring up the Visibility Graphics dialogue box.
  4. Uncheck HIDDEN LINES, RIGID LINKS & WEB JOISTS
  5. Click OK, to close the Visibility Graphics Dialogue Box.
  6. Now do a crossing window (in Plan View) and select everything
  7. Open the Filter Dialogue Box and uncheck EVERYTHING, except "LINES (STRUCTURAL FRAMING)"
  8. Unlock each end of the selected line
  9. Drag the ends somewhere out past the last reference line (THE ONE THAT CONTROLS THE EXTENSION)
  10. Then use the ALIGN command to ALIGN each end of that line to the appropriate Reference Plane.

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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:10:17 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#14

seniorcad143


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OK - i hate to sound stupid - BUT - I did all this.  it leaves me with 4 lines to choose from, but those 4 lines are 2 lines on each side of the joist that is the center of the rod at the ends of the joist.  (I can see them in elevation when I open up the elevation view.)  I don't think that is the correct line.  There is no other line.

 

Can I cry now?



Attached Images

99684_joist_-_aa.jpg99684_joist_-_aab.jpg99684_joist_-_aac.jpg

-----------------------------------

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Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:27:14 PM | AAARRRGGGHH! Joist questions!

#15

BigD


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Just from looking at the image that you sent me, firstly it looks like you still have Thin Line Mode on which kinda makes it difficult to see those big wide lines we're looking for.  But, it looks like maybe the those lines are not visible anyway.  The only thing that I can see down the center of the joist is a reference line.  Check in Visibility Graphics and make sure that the box beside "Structural Framing" is checked, and the other 3 boxes below it or unchecked.

If we were in the same room, or in a Go-To-Meeting or something, I'm pretty sure we could fix it.  If you have Go-To-Meeting (or something similar), I'd be glad to do an online session with you.  It would only take about 5 minutes.

But, I've fixed a K series Joist family for you and attached it.  Maybe you can reverse engineer it or something.



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