Forums >> Revit Building >> Tips & Tricks >> Our method for tagging storefront and curtainwall "walls" as windows

jimij

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So this is our process for tagging and scheduling (legend-ing) storefront walls as windows, and making them act parametrically like a Revit Family. Took a while to come up with this one, so let me know what you think and if it works for you or not:

At every office I’ve worked in (and this may be be a regional method) we’ve never actually “scheduled” our project windows in the sense of using a Revit schedule.

Typically we show a ¼” elevation view of each window type (a legend essentially) and referred to this as our “window schedule”.

We’ve never had much luck with using Revit Legends for this, so we’ve always just placed a wall somewhere outside the project scope and placed copies of all of our windows on that. Then by creating an elevation view of that one wall (sometimes 2 or 3 walls) we can create an effective “window schedule”. The windows in this type of legend are taggable and will remain in sync with the project. We have a similar process with doors and strip these extra doors off of our schedules by filtering the schedule by a particular parameter specific to those legend doors, i.e. we give them all an ‘x’ under the “comments” parameter and filter the schedule with that.

Problems occur however, when we try and schedule storefront windows, for a number of reasons:

1 – They’re considered walls in Revit so you can’t tag them as windows.

2 – If you have an interior storefront which has a certain size and mullion pattern and you change one copy the other copies won’t change.

3 – Even if you create a wall tag that looks like your window tag, you have to create a new storefront wall type for every different window that has slightly different mullion patterns etc so that your tags are consistent. This leads to an incredibly cluttered and confusing number of wall types, and it’s time consuming.

4 – We Could try and create actual window families for every different storefront condition, but we would end up with a pretty huge and complicated library of window types, some with 3 mullions by 4, some with embedded doors, some with doors and just a transom window above, some with a door and a sidelight….etc etc etc…

Here’s our solution:

1st - As a general “rule of thumb” every time we create a storefront window or “configuration” we group it and give it a name. This way if that group is copied around, it’s not easily altered by accident, you have to edit the group in order to change mullion patterns, doors etc and in turn all the other instances of that group are updated (like a family). Easy right, and just good practice.

2nd - Towards the end of the project, or when schedules (legends) are required. We drag and drop each Storefront “Type” from the Model groups section of the project browser in to view with the scheduling wall, and put them in place next to other windows etc.

Now this is where it gets interesting, and I wish we’d thought of this years ago…

We then open each group and add a “ghost” window object to each storefront model group. This is just a simple un-hosted window family made up of invisible model lines, so it never shows in any drawings. You can place it anywhere in the group.

We have to create a new Type within this family for each corresponding storefront “Type” (Group), but this doesn’t take long and is far less confusing than any other option we’ve tried. When finished you leave the “group edit” mode and that “ghost” window has shown up in every instance of the storefront “Type” in the project.  Now the storefront “Types” can be tagged in that legend view and in the project, of course you’re actually just tagging the “ghost” window and NOT the storefront wall itself but this works surprisingly well.

So that’s it, group your storefront “types” and add in the “ghost” window for tagging purposes. I’ve attached our “ghost” family for you to experiment with, let me know how this works for you

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elduderino1234

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Interesting workaround.... Do you also write in the type mark in the name of the object so that Ghost Window - A won't accidentally be placed in Storefront Group - B?

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markuspirker

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jimij

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@elduderino1234, yep, we name the ghost window types the similarly to what their Type tag will be. We just make sure to name the Curtain wall model group something specific, and don't use the type name there. Like "Front entry storefront" etc.

@Markuspirker, Awesome, glad to hear the method is working for you! I re-read my description today, slightly confusing, glad you got it!

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WWHub

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I think this is all not necessary.  Here is the process we use:

1. Since storefronts / curtain walls  are a wall, we created a different wall tag that looks the same as our window tag but reads the wall mark.  Then we tag these "walls" with that tag.  You can have multiple storefront windows all tagged the same or not no mater how they appear since this tag is an instance - not type tag. 
2. If you want to have multiple instances of the same window and be able to modify them all at the same time, just group one and then copy that group to other locations.  I don't find that necessary for most projects.
3. You do not need to create multiple storefornt wall types - PERIOD!  You can have manual or fully automatic CW types.  I will often place a CW using an automatic type (mullions and spacings fully defined) but then I switch it to a manual definition so that I can modify anything.
4. To create legends, there is no need to make additional walls / windows out in space, in another design option, phase or any other work around like that. Just add elevations to your model of these windows (hide the callouts typically) then in the elevations, hide everything but this CW.  Now place this on your legend or window schedule sheet, dimension and note accordingly.

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citywillsaveus

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WWhub, This seems like the best way to handle this. I just used this method on my project, and it took me about 10 minutes to fully tag all my storefronts. Thanks for the tip!

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depersia

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WWHub,  how do you include these curtainwall windows in your window schedule?

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WWHub

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depersia,

We tag windows in a seperate sequence from CW windows and that is logical because they are a different type of window. That allows u to use two different schedules that look the same but have the two diifferent element types.  If all of the columns in both schedules are titled the same, you can remove the titles from one schedule and place it immediately below the other schedule.  << Looks like one schedule.

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depersia

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Great, makes perfect sense.

Thanks!!

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rafzao

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Here we do as WWHub said, and works well. We only have to place the "Curtain Wall Schedule" on top/bottom to the Windows and Doors schedules...As walls don´t have the Height parameter I just made on colum with the formula "Area / Lenght" to work as the height.

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ljhudson

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I am not understanding how you are able to drap and drop the model group into a legend can you explain this step.

Step 2 that is

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WWHub

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You can't really legend storefront/curtainwall windows.  We elevate those using a callout from a working elevation.

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ljhudson

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could u post a physical wxample. I am not understanding how you are putting this on an elevation. I must be missing a step. is it on another phase? how is it hidden from the building if its just an elevation?

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WWHub

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1. Create an elevation of the wall.
2. In elevation, use a callout bubble around the window.  You can hide this if the elevation is a sheeted view.
3. Open the callout view and turn off everything except the wall & window items.  (You could add a filter to turn off all walls except curtain walls)
4. Place this window on your sheet wher it is to be used as a legend type item.  NOTE - This is a model view.  It is not a legend and can not be placed in a legend.

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pmartini2012

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I too would advise against doing why jimij proposed.  It's very far removed from a practical workflow and a few steps are unncessarily, particularly duplicating the curtain walls elsewhere in the model, adding a "ghost" family, and then filtering them out.  I can already others on my team confused as I explain the workaround to them, and consultants/contractors wondering why there's floating geometry showing up in their models once they link in the architectural model.

Others have already addressed some of jimji's issues, although the proposed solutions aren't exactly fitting either.  For instance, the general dilemma is finding a curtain wall family type whose Type Mark parameter you can use consistently throughout the project for window legend purposes.  The problem is that many curtain walls in practice are very unique, and you find yourself having to manually manipulate curtain grid lines.  Since those manipulations are instance based, your Type Mark will remain the same but your curtain walls are now different.  I'm not sure if I've ever had a project where I did not have to manually manipulate the great majority of the storefront/curtain walls even with pretty solid type parameters for grid spacing, rendering the "just use type parameters for each window type" argument null.

Another option proposed is to create a new type for every curtain wall.  Now at least each type can have its own Type Mark, but now if you manipulate a curtain wall gridline hoping it will change elsewhere in the project, it won't because, again, those changes are instance-based and not type-based.  Creating a group for each type can help overcome this problem, although it's a bit bothersome to see a single piece of geometry being grouped.  I can see others on the team thinking it was a mistake and ungrouping it.  I see this as being the best option, although I still don't like it very much.

I have been doing something similar to what WWHub proposed, in that we create seperate elevations that show each storefront type, hide those elevations via a filter on the plans, and then hide everything except the Curtain Wall family type in the elevations themselves.  This way you don't see the walls and such next to them.  This makes for easy dimensioning.

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