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Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 5:36:59 AM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#1

Jimlange


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Joined: Mon, Jan 19, 2009
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I am trying to create a warped roof (See attached file file too large couldn't attach) where grid B is flat.  Grid D slopes up and down (Grid 2 is high, grid 4 is low, grid 5 is high, grid 6 is low).  Grid E will then be high.  Grid F will slope up and down.  I have created roofs by footprint, then sloped them by point.  I then attached my columns to the roofs (offset by 2 1/2" for the k series joist seats).  (Oh, uh I just noticed that during my monkeying around I somehow lost my columns on grid D). I added my beams from column to column with the 3d button checked.  Then I added my joist from beam with the 3d button checked.  Next I can change the justification to other and offset the joist 2 1/2", but the joists are no longer snapped to the beams, and what happens when the grid moves or I must change the joist spacing or something.  I will have to remodel all the joists and reoffset the ends.  Isn't there an easier way? 

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Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 4:38:59 AM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#2

pdoug


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I read in one the posts that a good trick was to set the justification to other and then you'll be able to change the elevation for the beam whether it is flat or sloped, but in many of the sloped roof framing plans I have modeled I sometimes forget as I am modeling what the actual elevation is.  I have seen what you describe happen before.  I try to model using beam systems whenever I can.  These pick up the slopes (when 3D snapping is on) quite well and consistently, and you can modify the elevation before placing.  Where you can't use beam systems, I have just altered each beam end by the seat depth after placing.

 

Did I understand your question correctly? 


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Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:56:08 PM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#3

Jimlange


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thank you so much for your response.

 I tried your suggestion of using a beam system instead of just framing.  By setting the system properties to 3d, at an elevation of 2 1/2" and picked the support points, it did attach the joists to the sloping/warping girders 2 1/2" higher than the girders.

The problem,  It does not seem to modify correctly.  When I need to move a column/grid the deck which is attached to the grid doesn't seem to move correctly, so my column ends up no longer attached 2 1/2" lower than the deck, and not at the correct elevation.  Or if I adjust the slope of the deck, the column is no longer attached to the deck, so it doesn't adjust and neither do the girders, joists. I try to reattach the column to the deck at the correct elevation and the girders don't stay attached to the columns.  SO I am left reattaching all the columns and remodelling the girders and the joist system everytime the architect makes a change.

 In conclusion it worked, but the arch and I must know exactly where the final location of columns and what the roof slope is before I start modelling, or I will remodel it every time it changes. 

 There has to be a better way.  What am I missing.


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Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 6:08:38 PM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#4

pdoug


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I am not sure what phase of the project you're on yet.  Typically, If the roof is going to be sloped (ex. 1/4"/ft) and there are high/lows like you have mentioned I will model the roof flat for coordination with the structural analysis back and forth and the architectural coord until around 75% of project completion.  By then, all framing is usually determined and roof elevations are all set.  As far as the columns and beam staying attached to the roof from the arch (is this what you're doing?) I haven't tried this approach.  

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Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:30:06 PM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#5

Jimlange


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Thanks again for your input.  That is probably what I will do.  I am in the early stage of the project.  When you get to the point that you add the slope in, do you have to remodel it?  If it is a simple slope I see how you can add it, but with a warping 1/4", it seems like you end up remodelling it.

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Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 5:46:38 PM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#6

pdoug


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I have had to remodel some areas of a model before, but I think it was unrelated to roof slope.  You can easily adjust the elevation of each beam end through the element properties.  I do this a lot when I am confident things aren't going to change.  You may have to remodel a few beams, but if you set up correctly in the beginning the beams, joists and columns are easy enough to modify without remodeling.

 

Where are you out of and how long have you been using Revit?

 

 


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Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:33:59 PM | Warped Roof with bar joist

#7

Jimlange


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I am in Lincoln, NE.  A year ago, I left my secure position at my previous firm of 14 years and started my own consulting firm.  At that point I dumped CAD and forced myself to jump into Revit.  Although many of my projects this past year have been with architects using CAD, so my models haven't had to be acurate. This is my third project coordinating with an architect in Revit.  I feel like I know how to do most things in Revit, I am just not sure if I am utilizing the best practices. 

 How about yourself?  Do you have any advice?


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