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qabulin

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Okay boys and girls... I finally used Revit within a virtual machine within LINUX!!!

(Before you ask "WHY LINUX???" please realize that question could be an ENTIRELY different thread.)

I've been waiting a while to do this, and after Autodesk offered support on Macs via Bootcamp, I decided it was time to give it a go in the Linux world. I must also admit I was inspired by one of the RevitCity guru's (rkitect) and his build, which is a MacbookPro that runs Windows XP via Parallels and Revit.

Here are my test parameters:

• Xubuntu 9.10 64bit for the Host OS
  • NO DUAL BOOT

• abandoned Dell Vostro 1700 laptop
  • this machine is close to the specs of a similar Vista machine I frequently use for Revit remotely from the office.
• stock processor (1.8Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo E8000?)
  • I'm unsure of the EXACT processor product code, but I do not think this chip fully supports hardware virtualization (VT-X) which means that I am POSSIBLY not using the processor to its fullest potential with both cores.
• 3Gb Kingston ram
  • This upgrade was done as a quick fix before the original user was given a newer replacement system.
• Windows XP Pro 32bit
  • It was my first choice to run 64bit, but I believe a lack of hardware virtualization was failing me (FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROCESSOR CHIP.)
• Revit Architecture 2010
• VirtualBox
  • This is my virtualization software to create the virtual Windows XP enviroment.

The goal of this experiment was to simply install and run Revit 2010 in a virtualized guest OS within a Linux/Unix based host with open source virtualization software. The end result would help prepare myself for eventually bringing this open source solution to a production system at our office.

The setup preformed AMAZINGLY well. The biggest issues were related to Dell hardware and the Revit DVD having conflicts with Linux and the processor for this particular machine. I believe the processor failure really short-changed my experiment and nerfed my performance.

Using Revit was a breeze. Since the Guest OS had only the responsibility to run Autodesk software, I did not have to bog it down with other tasks that seem to clutter my desktop. It also booted very quickly. Rendering time was rather poor. I still have a lot of bugs to work out with the hardware virtualization with the processor which I think will greatly improve this. Most all other functions behaved as expected on this system.

I plan to proceed with implementing this solution to a production system. The anticipated gains are based on my other duties, such as server administration. Linux will afford me the greater security that I cannot get out from using Windows and also will keep me in the Linux environment. The anticipated cons are based on the overall interoperability of the open source software. Other solutions may need to be created as the project continues.

ADDITIONAL DETAILS:

My choice for the Host OS (Xubuntu) was based off of experience, stability and support base. Xubuntu is a version of Ubuntu (Ubuntu being possibly the most used and widely supported Linux distributions.) This particular distribution is very lightweight and has been the most stable Linux OS that I have used on many systems. Dell laptops are particularly tricky to run Linux on and so I picked something I knew would work.

The system (Dell Vostro 1700 laptop) was just something laying around. I believe that this open source solution should be adaptable and not a special build. This biggest drawback in my opinion is the particular processor simply because it is an older and a lower end model.

The Guest OS (Windows XP) was HEAVILY decided on because of my aforementioned friend, rkitect. He has extensively worked with his setup and has found Windows XP Pro 64 to be the fastest and most stable Guest OS. As I greatly trust and respect his opinion, I used this as a starting point in the test. My downgrade to a 32bit version was due to the fact that the virtual machine did not recognize itself as being 64bit. I believe this is because the processor failed to properly perform the hardware virtualization to achieve a 64bit machine with VirtualBox.

The virtual machine software (VirtualBox) was chosen from extensive research and tests from past projects. Sun has provided a very large contribution to the virtual machine scene and I believe that it exceeds most all free options for virtualization software.

Special thanks to rkitect! Maybe I should think about shipping more Skittles!

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qab

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JLArchMD

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Qabulin - thanks for posting your test results - this is very inspiring. I will try a similar experiment when I get a chance to breathe as I am very impressed w/ range of graphics programs that you get with Linux nowadays. The big concern / question I have about this is graphics card performance. How was panning / zooming / general 3d display?

TIA 

John

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qabulin

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Although I had a very simple model up, the general 3D display and navigation appeared to perform just fine.  This evening I will try testing more complicated models and projects.  I also plan to run benchmark apps at a later date.

VirtualBox allows for 3D and 2D acceleration which were both on.  I have not had a chance to tinker with the settings and runs tests with them off to see if there is a significant difference.

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qabulin

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UPDATE:

I tested a larger file in 3D and it worked about as well as could be expected on a very low end setup (refer to first post in this thread for details.) This means there was expected choppiness, but it did not appear that I was going to crash the setup just because I wanted to move the 3D view around or so awful I would not proceed to a better graphics setup. An odd glitch I noticed was the difficulty to pull the project browser from the Revit window. I was not very concerned because the right method to performing the action with success was quickly learned, and the project browser has always appeared to me to be a bit hesitant to leave the comforts of home.

I have also installed a package for VirtualBox called “Additions” which allowed me to go into a “seamless” mode. The seamless is rather simpler than it appears which makes it fairly buggy. The intent is to bring your Microsoft application windows out from the virtual machine and onto the desktop of the host machine (Linux in my case). This gives the appearance that you are running Revit in Linux. The simplicity of it is that the behavior is the virtual machine has gone to a full screen mode but the Microsoft desktop and the clutter that is on it has vanished leaving you with a visible host machine desktop and the Microsoft task bar and any open application window. The bugs that pop up seem that they would be inherent due to this behavior I described. The results are that the Microsoft windows are always on top, and drag and drop of the host desktop does not function. The good news is I can either enter the shortcut to leave seamless mode or, since I am using Linux, I can just switch to another workspace.

I still intend on bringing this setup to a production machine soon. With the holidays coming up, this should fit nicely with my waining schedule! At any rate, my concerns for the future are the overall performance of the graphics card through the virtualization software, particularly DirectX.

The crashes that I have had have been in been adjustments with the virtual machine. For example, the installation of Additions hurt my virtual machine until it restarted. Now all appears to be in order. I have also abandoned the setup for long periods of time with the virtual machine running. There have been no glitches or noticeable affects of deterioration from extended uptime.

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qabulin

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UPDATE:

Revit is now installed in a virtualized, guest installation of Windows XP Professional 64bit on a production machine with Xubuntu as the host operating system.

During the next three days before the holidays, standard operations will take place on this machine to see how it compares to its previous setup of Revit installed on a standalone, single OS installation of Vista Ultimate 64bit.

The improvements already seen are in the basic operations of the virtualized guest OS. XP (as expected) performs much more quickly and handles Revit graphics more smoothly (i.e. panning and zooming in 3D).

Vista was also tested in a virtualized environment set to the same parameters as XP, but the resources were much more compromised in Vista, specifically the graphics.

Currently, the biggest downgrade is the expected drop in performance due to sharing resources amongst two OS's, but XP has the lowest footprint in the resource pool as compared to Vista.

At the moment, I do not see any reason to switch back. As stated before, I have reasons to work within a Linux environment so the sacrifices are negligible. I am considering doing a write up on the setup, if anyone has desire to research it and create their own virtualization setup to utilize a specific OS.

Looking at the big picture, it now looks as though I am another step closer to what appears to be a growing enticement to go open source within our office.

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rkitect

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There is a good chance that VB runs MUCH better in a linux environment than in an OS X environment.  I will have to check again to see if any improvements are made.  I'd be curious to see how parallels for linux compares to the VB virtualization.

Congrats again on your succesful run

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Carl - rkitecsure[at]gmail.com

Need help? I'm probably in my chat room!

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in asia, but only slightly less well known is this! Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!

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qabulin

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UPDATE:

Now that I have had some time to play with my setup (refer to previous posts) I can confidently say that I am satisfied with the results.As mentioned before, my primary motivation was due to certain tasks that I perform on a day to day basis. Also note that I said I was “satisfied.”

There are two things that would make me really excited about the setup:

• DirectX Support

• Better Hardware

If Revit 2010+ was well invested in OpenGL, then pairing with VirtualBox would be much nicer. Since everything is going DirectX, I need to give VirtualBox and Linux time to catch up.

As far as my hardware goes on the production desktop, I am running:

• 3.0Ghz AMD Antlon X2 64bit Dual-Core processor
• 8Gb of Kingston DDR2 800Mhz ram
• EVGA GeForce 8600 GT 256Mb video card
• Xubuntu operating system
• VirtualBox
• Windows XP Professional 64bit guest operating system

With the latest and greatest improvements these days, my 3+year-old system is looking a little tired. A couple of quad cores and some faster DDR3 ram would lend this setup extra resources to burn on a couple of operating systems running simultaneously.

What's next??

Well, I am working out plans for a new network at our new office when we move in the spring of 2010. I will be testing out and researching engaging our office to operate under central servers with thin clients, specifically for the non-Architecture department staff. With a thousands of dollars being spent on a powerful processing unit, I'm tempted to steal some of these resources for a hungry Revit program to dwindle its hours of rendering on... and still be able to check email, write documents, or spend time watching... er... Revit tutorial videos.

With resolving the logistics of outsourcing Revit processes to a local server, I am also testing out different server software. I would not be too surprised if I post results on running Revit within a BSD host soon.

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qabulin

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"

[...] I am also testing out different server software. I would not be too surprised if I post results on running Revit within a BSD host soon. Edited on: Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:44:10 PM"

 

I ran some tests and have the conclustion that I will not make any strong attempts at running Rvit in a BSD host anytime soon.  The porting of VirtualBox OSE is so poor at the moment and this is the primary virtualization software I am testing.  I will continue to watch the progress of this application under BSD (particularly FreeBSD) for any monumental changes.  Without a strong virtualization port or a strong WINE port, I need to stick with Linux OS's for the moment

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qabulin

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UPDATE:

First Crash! .... [[ ON A PRODUCTION MACHINE ]]

I can attribute this to a few conflicts:

• Installation of Compriz

  • HIGH performance desktop enhancement program that adds a lot of graphical effects to your desktop with quite a bit of resource cost.

  • Not an out-of-the-box application for my host OS so I was already asking for a weak spot in my system by changing the OS's natural behavior.

• Using Xubuntu vs. Ubuntu

  • Xubuntu is assumed to be different to Ubuntu “only” by th desktop style: XFCE and GNOME (respectively).

  • Gnome uses very different libraries and other system files and programs to operate. Alteration of the original Ubuntu to be centered around XFCE is a little more than just a different desktop.

• Altering Virtual Machine settings after its creation

  • Curious to see the effects, I started playing with the system settings of my guest OS. Bad things happened quickly thereafter.

Being a little more weathered and having a chance to see everything I like, need and can do without, I am rebuilding the system as we speak for a “Round Two.” The biggest difference will be giving more ram to the Host OS and running only one virtual processor on the Guest OS. A little research showed that there was much better performance with one virtual CPU, regardless of how many physical ones are present. Also, moving additional ram back to the Host OS will make it easier for it to perform while it supports VirtualBox running.

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b8dnbbr

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My catchup comments on thread:

numerous nix 3d/modeling apps. yeah, wings, blender, some cad most of which i've barely run..

vostro 1700.. very low end setup. hmm, seemsgoo to me (albeit laptop) e8x00 seems pretty good for c2d. but i'd guess that 3gb was too little for running "virtual" os?

Compiz.

i'm trying ubuntu on 2001 era pc(s) (512+mb, xp w/av+fw whizzes along). ubuntu graphics are sluggish already without 3d desktop effects. (googling suggests x-server is inefficient and a 2002 or 2003 agp card should fix the slow graphics).

annoying: compiz and dependencies stay in the gnome/ubuntu updater list. I find it annoying to repeatedly uncheck those 3 or 4 items.

qabulin:

Xubuntu is assumed to be different to Ubuntu "only" by th desktop style: XFCE and GNOME (respectively).

i tried differently: sudo.. install xubuntu blahblah desktop onto the original ubuntu install, with conclusion: graphics are still sluggish and the menus are still gnome's.

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b8dnbbr

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qabulin

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First of all the crash was on the production system (refer to post #7 for specs.) Honestly, I can run compriz on my ASUS netbook, but EEEbuntu is VERY lightweight desktop.  Inspite of this, Compriz is quite a digression from the original desktop's GUI environment and consumes an abundant amount of resources. This all adds to the instability of running a virtual machine.

Secondly, I have tried to change desktops back and forth from GNOME and XFCE, and nothing good happens. It's truly better to do a fresh install.  Currently, I have performed a fresh install of Ubuntu.  It is more up to par for handling office networks.  There were far too many workarounds for Xubuntu to function like I want.

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