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Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:18:23 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#1

greg1970


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So after doing several tutorials and reading various info no families I've begun using parameters in the window families and I have a few questions:

1. is there a basic rule of thumb on how to use constraints and parameters when builing a window.  I can model what I want easily enough but when I begin putting dimensions in and constraining them all sorts of crazy things happen when I place the window in the project.  For instance sometime the modeled object get stretched one direct while other pieces move another depending on where I put the dimension in the family editor.  Can you model an object that is the master object, say a window jamb, and make all other objects that are dependant on where that object stretch and change accordingly by dimensioning to the master object - linked to it as it were.  I try this but all I end up doing is making the window jamb stretch or some other wierd instance. Is there a basic rule of thumb so that, for instance if you want the window to move closer to the exterior all other pieces stretch or move accordingly?

2. after building the piece the tutorial tells me to go to settings and pick the parmeters and family option.  From there it tells me to pick the family the model belongs to.  I pick "window" in this case but my materals options are very limited - like 6 or 7 materials.  How do bring more in?

3. finally is there a way to modle say brick soldier couse over the window when editing the window in the family editor.  I modeled one by using a solid extrude option and choosing a wall material for it but it doesn't show up in the modle when I place it.  AlsoI can only get the limited windows materials pallet here too.

 Any help would be appreciated -


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:55:02 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#2

psymon


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Families can be some of the hardest things to do. However saying that it (like most of Revit) is about practise.

Rules that I find worth following - there is not always a specific reason, but I find they prevent problems:

(1) Always build your family up slowly, as you create each element "Flex" your model - ie: change the parameters in the family paramater dialouge box.

(2)Allways constrain to reference planes, avoid constraining to other geometry. This way you don't set up a heirarchy of constraints (window glazing locked to frame locked to sill etc).

(3)Allways draw reference planes from the menu  - if you copy say the ones in the default family you can copy it's properties and cause problems.

(4)Use nested families where possible - make a frame with glass - use this for the awning sash in awning windows, a sliding door etc... it is easier to control than trying to constrain the glass and frame each time you create a window.

(5)After you cretae a compont ie: a frame, pick the object, go to it's properties, and make the subcatagory frame. Then in the component' properties also make it's material a family parameter.

The way that material work is best is if the materials are set to "by catagory" under the family paramaters dialouge box. You only need to assign family parameter materials for each sub-catagory - frame, glazing, etc.

When you bring the window into your project the material will default to those set under object styles. This gioves you instant uniformity to your windows throughout the project. If you need to change say, the frame material you change it under the object styles and it will change all of the window frames in the project (that have "by catagory" as it material).

If you wish to change individual windows you can then pick them and change their material from "by catagory" to a specific material.

 

Sorry, missed your last question, this is for sills and headrers to windows? Have a look in help under sweeps or you can use a specific wall hoset family - I have attached an example

HTH



Edited on: Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:01:41 PM

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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:15:35 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#3

greg1970


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Some folow up questions if you don't mind:

(2)Allways constrain to reference planes, avoid constraining to other geometry. This way you don't set up a heirarchy of constraints (window glazing locked to frame locked to sill etc).

-----does it matter if you constrain to the same reference plane for all components or should they be set to certain planes for best practice?

(4)Use nested families where possible - make a frame with glass - use this for the awning sash in awning windows, a sliding door etc... it is easier to control than trying to constrain the glass and frame each time you create a window.

------I do want to use nested families but I need more research about this.  For instance if you make a door in one family and want to nest it in another how do you bring it in in its correct location and how to you bring in all the inputs (i.e: height and width etc.)

(5)After you cretae a compont ie: a frame, pick the object, go to it's properties, and make the subcatagory frame. Then in the component' properties also make it's material a family parameter.

 ----- I will try this.

The way that material work is best is if the materials are set to "by catagory" under the family paramaters dialouge box. You only need to assign family parameter materials for each sub-catagory - frame, glazing, etc.

 ----- I will try this too.

When you bring the window into your project the material will default to those set under object styles. This gioves you instant uniformity to your windows throughout the project. If you need to change say, the frame material you change it under the object styles and it will change all of the window frames in the project (that have "by catagory" as it material).

If you wish to change individual windows you can then pick them and change their material from "by catagory" to a specific material.

 

Sorry, missed your last question, this is for sills and headrers to windows? Have a look in help under sweeps or you can use a specific wall hoset family - I have attached an example

----- Is this similar to your answer 4 above?

HTH


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:31:40 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

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-----does it matter if you constrain to the same reference plane for all components or should they be set to certain planes for best practice?

No it doesn't matter, as long as you stay away from constraining geometry to geometry.

------I do want to use nested families but I need more research about this.  For instance if you make a door in one family and want to nest it in another how do you bring it in in its correct location and how to you bring in all the inputs (i.e: height and width etc.)

This is too long to go into here, there are tutorials around that address this:

http://www.revitcity.com/tutorials/arrays_and_nested/

Try Augi etc.

You can make sills part of the family if you like or using the family I posted you caninsert them when in the project as a stand alone object.

 

I suggest you download some window families and look how they are made.

good luck

 


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:37:07 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#5

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-----does it matter if you constrain to the same reference plane for all components or should they be set to certain planes for best practice?

No it doesn't matter, as long as you stay away from constraining geometry to geometry.

------I do want to use nested families but I need more research about this.  For instance if you make a door in one family and want to nest it in another how do you bring it in in its correct location and how to you bring in all the inputs (i.e: height and width etc.)

This is too long to go into here, there are tutorials around that address this:

http://www.revitcity.com/tutorials/arrays_and_nested/

Try Augi etc.

You can make sills part of the family if you like or using the family I posted you caninsert them when in the project as a stand alone object.

 

I suggest you download some window families and look how they are made.

good luck

 


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:37:25 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#6

psymon


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-----does it matter if you constrain to the same reference plane for all components or should they be set to certain planes for best practice?

No it doesn't matter, as long as you stay away from constraining geometry to geometry.

------I do want to use nested families but I need more research about this.  For instance if you make a door in one family and want to nest it in another how do you bring it in in its correct location and how to you bring in all the inputs (i.e: height and width etc.)

This is too long to go into here, there are tutorials around that address this:

http://www.revitcity.com/tutorials/arrays_and_nested/

Try Augi etc.

You can make sills part of the family if you like or using the family I posted you caninsert them when in the project as a stand alone object.

 

I suggest you download some window families and look how they are made.

good luck

 


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:10:04 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#7

greg1970


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Psymon,

I've been looking at the model you provided - thanks - I do have a question.  I notice that there is a notch in your wall.  How did you do that?  Did you use a void?  I'm trying to replicate what you did at work right now.


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:10:14 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

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Correct, it is a void form (in this case an extrusion). Create it and then use the "cut geometry" command to cut that section out of the wall.

This works for all families that are, floor, wall or ceiling hosted. For example we have a shower base  that cuts a setdown out of the floor.


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:22:33 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

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greg1970


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I got it to work but I noticed that after I void the wall it voids the sill when inserted in the project - am I doing anything wrong?

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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:32:59 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#10

psymon


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it is probably flipped with the sill inside the wall? Maybe put flip controls on it in plan:

the left/right arrow things 


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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:11:45 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#11

greg1970


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no the sill is clearly pointing the right way.  I modled it basically just like your model and it work fine in the family editor.  And when I instert it in pops in correctly there too. But where the "void" is located it voids the wall and the brick sill all the way to the point of the face of the brick wall.  What I'm left with is just the lip that sticks out past the brick walls face.  I looked for some sort of command or toggle to change what is happening, but I could't find anything.

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Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:22:07 PM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#12

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Families don't work with command or toggles, they are what they are.

Try using the "do not cut" command in the family and pick the void and the sill to make sure that the void is not cutting the sill as well. If that fails, post the family.


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Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:16:03 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

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greg1970


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no the sill is clearly pointing the right way.  I modled it basically just like your model and it work fine in the family editor.  And when I instert it in pops in correctly there too. But where the "void" is located it voids the wall and the brick sill all the way to the point of the face of the brick wall.  What I'm left with is just the lip that sticks out past the brick walls face.  I looked for some sort of command or toggle to change what is happening, but I could't find anything.

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Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:17:30 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

#14

greg1970


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will do, and thanks for your time!

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Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:11:45 AM | general windows parameters and constraints help

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Know someone else who's been working on this problem?  Connect them with the Rockstar Hour.  

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-----------------------------------

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