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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:39:24 AM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#1

onematt


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Hi All,

I am trying to set up a template that i can use for all new work that i do in REVIT 2009. I am just changing over from AutoCAD where i have penweights set up so that there is depth in my plans (see attached). I am able to set up basic filters in my view template for single skin walls but the problem i am having occurs when i try to create different line weights in walls will several functions (eg. structure[1], air barrier[3], Finish[4])

I am trying to do exactly what is shown in the attchment in REVIT but have so far been VERY unsuccessful.

I have spoken to many different support lines and teachers regarding this subject and none have been able to successfully figure out how to do it. It seems silly to me that a REVIT architecture doesn't deal with basic architectural convention like lineweights easily - unless I have been speaking to the worng people completely.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Matt



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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:13:14 AM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#2

robinballew


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First things first. See the attached image file. Go to visibility graphics (VV or VG) quick key. Click on Override Host Layers. This will allow you to add what ever line weights you need.

Second thing: Think of the Revit transition like going from Hand drawings to Cad. When that happened you didn't expect you drawings to look the same. Actually it was quite difficult to get the drawings to look good at all back in the day. Going from Cad to Revit is the same thing. Your drawings will "not" look the same.  Hopefully they will look better. Go back to basics. I would not start out trying to get Revit to look like Cad. In Cad the temptation is to draw everything all the time. Even at very small scales. Start over with your "Cad" standards and make new "Revit" standards.

 



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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:06:54 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#3

onematt


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Thanks for that. I do understand what your saying. REVIT has some amazing capabilities that AutoCAD did not. Your solution will work for smaller jobs. Many of the big jobs we complete here however use several different structural wall types with varying types of cladding all requiring different lineweights. Overridding host layers and assigning a line wight to 'Structure' in these cases means that a 'structural' brick and a 'structural' reinforced concrete wall would be the same lineweight. Throw a brick veneer wall and a timber stud with NRG cladding into the mix all in the same view and i have massive lineweight problems. When printing people find it harder to read the plans and distinguish between things because it all appears flat and uniform.

Before REVIT i had used ArchiCAD also and when creating wall types you can assign lineweights to every element in the wall type. This was a very simple way to control linweights. I was hoping REVIT might have the same sort of lineweight controls and that i was just missing it somewhere.

EVERYTHING is possible in REVIT. This must be possible i just have to find a way. 


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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:12:59 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#4

alabaster2513


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You can use your linework tool (keystroke LW) to modify and line to a different style. I use this function a ton when trying to create depth in elevations and it really helps make details pop off the page like your good ol CAD details.

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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:38:05 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#5

onematt


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Thanks. Thats definately a solution for now.

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Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 2:23:25 AM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#6

Mr Spot


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I'm hearing some really odd things these days of the way people draft?  Why would you want to use lineweights to control the different display of conrete as opposed to brick?  If you are only using lineweights to differentiate you must have some really good eyes?

I figure as long as your cut walls are a thicker lineweight that is enough popping, the cut patterns tell me what type of material it is not the lineweight?

Does anyone else use different lineweights for different wall materials?  I understand having the structural layers of the wall thicker than the finish layers but beyond that it seems a little odd.

Welcome to being enlighted?


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Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:34:17 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#7

WWHub


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I agree with Mr. Spot.  Good architectural drafting convention that I have seen for 40 years was that the outermost wall lines were the heaviest and all interior lines were the same - lighter line.  So it is interesting that while I had never pursued changing REVIT's setup, robinballew's post pointed me in a direction I had not discovered.  Although I doubt that I will ever change the wall setup, it is always good to discover new things.


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Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:58:22 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#8

onematt


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Perhaps its a difference between Australian and American styles. In Aus, lineweights are still an important part of drawings and taught in architectural and drafting schools. I had a subject three years ago requiring me to produce a full set of hand drawn working drawings with correct lineweights as a big part of the grade. I guess its something i will have to work around within REVIT. (Interestingly REVITS rival ArchiCAD has a simple way of cut line thicknesses when you create a wall so i assumed REVIT would have the same capability)

I am still new to the program though and looking forward to seeing what it can do for our office. 


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Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:42:35 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#9

robinballew


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The best way I can describe how to use lineweights in Revit is to look at hand drawn documents. By hand we would never have more than maybe 3 or 4 linewights. I use Revit much the same way.

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Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:47:05 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#10

WWHub


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onematt, I see by your post that you have not read robinballew's post - the second post in this thread which tells you how to do what you want to do.  I don't understand!

 

BTW - What was introduced to you in school  as "correct" line weights may be just someone's rules - not necessarily the industry standards.  CAD and now BIM has allowed us more possibilities in how we document our work but just because we can doesn't mean we should.  Lots of lines with subtle differences in line weight become muddled.  I think the contrast we always looked for, in hand drafting, between the exterior enclosing linework and interior - material to material junctions still reads the best.  And that's what we are really interested in.  How do we present our documents so they are easily and best read.


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Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 2:36:58 AM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#11

Mr Spot


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FYI, onematt, I'm in Australia and have never heard of anyone using line weights to designate wall types until now...  And i've asked this question of quite a few people now and they've never heard of this either??  What school were you taught this?

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Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:45:34 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#12

MARS1276


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Mr. Spot, I would like to address the issue of lineweights with you.

  The company I work for uses AutoCAT and only a couple different lineweights for our plan drawings.  For example, with site plans, we will use a heavy (white) dashed line to show the footprint of the project (building we are about to do).  For any nearby existing buildings we use a thin (magenta) solid line with a diagonal hatch pattern to the fill the overall outline of the nearby structure(s).  And for our Structural plans we use a white line for our foundation perimeter and grey (light) dashed lines for our footing.

   For floor plans we simply use two lineweight for the walls; a light lineweight (almost blue; not the true blue that will not print) for the drywall/finish and a cyan (also light, but heavier than blue) for the studwall.  This helps mainly distinguish for our prints where the dimension line is actually drawn to.  And for Electrical, Mechanical, and Plumbing; we make the plan drawing a magenta lineweight overall, but keep the lines representing the utility, plumbing, and mechanical lines/objects their respective lineweights as well to help distinguish where the utilities and such differ than the overall plan.

  For our section drawings (walls, details, so forth), we use different lineweights for almost all aspects of different materials and parts drawn in the section.  Insulation will be drawn gray (light), side paneling/finish cyan, structural steel and girts red (thicker than cyan but less so than white),  Notes are cyan with a yellow leader attached (also light), and elevation callout tags are white with cyan lettering.

   Now keep in mind this is a standard developed by the company I work for (in the U.S.).  We are not an Architectural firm, but rather a design-build and engineering construction self-owned-company.  So I can understand we may not do things as per spec.  But we too are adopting Revit 9 as our drafting program and are still very new to it.  However we are wanting to keep very much as close to our AutoCAD prints as possible in regards to lineweights.

 

  With that said, you may be able to see how we would like to be able to use a "standard" set of lineweights for our project.  Again, it is not a standard but rather an adopted standard that we have made for ourselves regarding what we think looks best on a 30x42 page.  Hope this sheds some light on ways some of us would like to adopt a way to use a standard lineweight globally for each of our projects.

 

  Now for my own question: Like AutoCAD, is there a template you can load that will allow you to begin a project with the lineweights and styles already set up (standard template)?  Or is that something you will have to change within the Visibile Graphics area every time?


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Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:47:45 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#13

MARS1276


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Sorry my response was so lengthy, and I meant to say AutoCAD instead of AutoCAT.  My bad.

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Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:37:27 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#14

onematt


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MARS,

Its good to finally find someone trying to do what i have been struggling with for so long. In short the answer to your question is no. There is no template, unless you create your own, that will be able to let you control your lineweights the way you want to do it. And even if you make your own it probably wont work the way you are trying to do it. Since i started REVIT six weeks ago i have been trying to find out how it can be done because my offcie uses similar convention to what you seem to be using. I spoke with a rep from Autodesk who told me that (unlike its competitors) REVIT had many other bugs to be fixed than to worry about making lineweights easier to use. It was not confidence inspiring but i still agree irregardless of that, REVIT is a first class drafting tool.

 

With all that said there are ways to do what your asking.

 

In my office over the last few weeks i have created a template with all the different walls types, dimension styles, text styles etc that would generally be used in our projects.

It IS possible to create filters that control single skin walls. (eg concrete block or single stud) I have created these so every single wall will show at the lineweight i specify.

The main problem is in the way REVIT makes walls with more than function. Now there is a way to do this but only to a certain extent and it probably wont work with your depth of lineweights. If you go to Visibily/Graphics Overrides there is an option 'Override host layers'. If you tick 'Cut line styles' and Edit you can change the line type and lineweight for each different wall function. So you can show structure[1] as a thick and Finish[4] as a thin line. Once you change these you then need to create a view template that you can apply to all relevant views in your project.

HOWEVER, lets say you change structure[1] to be 0.7 lineweight for example. EVERY wall with that function will show the same. SO if you have a structural stud wall, structural brick and structural concrete block all in the same view they will all show at 0.70. This might be fine for your concrete block wall but im sure you dont want you stud wall to be that thick.

Because of this i have pretty much left them as they are.

The way i have done it is by making my own linestyles. In your settings menu you have a table under lineweights and a number corresponding to each different lineweight. In settings under linestyles you can add your own types of lines, dashed, thick thin, any combination. Once you have done that you can assign them to lines in your view by typing LW, choosing from the drop down menu and selecting the line you want to show thicker. If you use 'cut host layers' as well as linestyles it can be less tedious but its the only way ive found to produce drawings that look the way i want them to.

 

Hopefully this helps. If you find a better way to do it PLEASE let me know. 


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Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:19:39 PM | REVIT Architecture 2009 Basic Architectural Convention question

#15

MARS1276


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  If I am understanding your complete post, it sounds like you have the same issue and have found a nice work-around.  I have noticed that you can make you're own line types.  I'm wondering if you can create multiple line types of the same thickness and type (solid) but give each a different line weight.  So, if I'm following what you have said; I could make a solid line type be a weight of 0.7 and call it concrete block, another to be a weight of maybe 0.3 (I don't know) and call it stud wall... so on so forth.

I will definitely have to look into that.

 Also, in your template, you mentioned using it to show text styles used in your projects.  We too have a specific text style we use.  Is there a way to make said template apply to tags and labels as well without having to change the actual text within the 'host' family?  If that's the case I beg you tell me how.  I can't tell you how many labels and symbols I have redone and saved just to show the text-style we want to use.

  To address another idea you mentioned you did.  We too had an idea to create a family of wall styles (many, many different walls) with all the different wall-types that we build; each having their own structure assigned as per material used).  You mentioned creating a template for your dimension styles (which we would like to do as well) and walls, but I am unsure what you mean by template.  Did you create a family to drop into your project?  Or how did you go about creating the template?  I apologize if this should seem straightforward enough, but outside of tutorials we can find online, we are pretty much stumbling over ourselves trying to learn this.  I really wish we would get a consultant to come in for a few days and teach us every aspect we want to be able to use, but alas my company will not do so.   I really feel we are creating too much work for ourselves and not learning efficiently how to actually use the program.

  This is definitely a Page I am going to file for our reference!  You have been very insightful and I have found your advice helpful thus far.


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