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Joined: Tue, Jan 16, 2007
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I just wanted to ask some opinions on discipline work sharing. I have been working back and forth with structural on a large T.I. project that we layed out the shell, struct. layed out the existing conditions and now we have multiple tenants we are doing projects for. My biggest problem over the years is linking revit files together. The performance is greatly reduced when using links, especially when links with files already linked into them. It seems to me that with parameters and disciplines and organization that everyone should in fact work in the same file. Then all disciplines just document their packages seperately. From my experience a large link free file performs better than a small file with many links. I know the whole copy/monitor system but it does nothing for me when needing structurals roof element to be a live element in my projects. Please only respond to this thread if you have experience in this subject across multiple jobs, thank you.
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I am working on my second hospital, basically we have been contracted out to recreate the mep systems in bim. we received a poorly executed architectural model that turned out to be useless. we had to recreate struct. and then of course all mep trades. the way i had set it up and perhaps it was our machines (hp 8400 quad-core 4gbram) but we have had no problems working with large linked files, now we did split it by floors, generally we will do about 3 floors per linked file depending on the floor plate. then we will have a master file with all files linked to show a composite model. as far as your problem with the copy/monitor and the roof, i do not know the answer, good thing autodesk has changed the copy/monitor functions a bit in 2009.
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my machine has dual quad-core Xeons with Quadro FX graphics, horsepower isn't a problem. But still, I have a tenant job in which our site and shell are linked in. Our site and shell project has the structural project linked into that. I think its just too curse many links. It just seems to me there has got to be a better way. Maybe I should bind my structural to my site and shell or bind them all across the board.
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You can bind, I may also suggest attaching the structural to the shell, instead of keeping it an overlay
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I'm currently working on a 400,000 s.f. hospital project in Revit. Currently, we haven't experienced any issues with the sturctural link - but, we are having issues linking the MEP. Having both structural and MEP linked into the architectural file really slows down the interface. We've decided to use NavisWorks for our clash detection and coordination and possibly as the final digital recievable to the client. Although, we would prefer to have the MEP linked into the architectural file as we design the R.C.P.- its just faster to go back and forth to Navisworks. Hopefully, in the future this will not be the case. Also, we are getting alot of complaints about doing the plumbing in Revit- mechanical says its too slow and doesn't really add alot of value in terms of coordination- but, BIM is about interoperability and datasharing over the entire life-cycle of the building. Alot of firms just dont want to add info to the project that wasnt in the traditional, sheet-based approach- its frustrating. If your doing a BIM project make sure you define what "BIM" means before you begin.
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"navis+final digital recievable to the client" <- this is huge, this is also what we have done although we have provided the rvt models too. I prefer this. The obvious reason that your interface is slowed is because the mep model usually gets very heavy, on 400,000 SF i would guess that it may be about 100 or more MB (depends how its been done). what i would try is overriding which linked view you are seeing in the arch model. I see what you are saying about the rcp there is certainly value there, if you have worksets activated you may be able to link the mep into a local (without saving back to the central) then do your rcp, unload the mep model and then save to central. this way it wont kill the entire model. The plumbing functionality in revit mep 2008 is almost impossible to use when doing sanitary lines or any pipe that has a slope on it, it can be done but you should expect the add significant time to the process and i would never go to shop with those dwgs. ever. autodesk has made improvements in 2009, but as of now the plumbing parts are the most underdevloped in the entire revit suite. "If your doing a BIM project make sure you define what "BIM" means before you begin." <- It is really funny you say this, i have to give the BIM talk to every contractor and even some architects that i interact with. most contractors think that bim is simply 3d. they find it really surprising that we have gone ahead and added the 4th and 5th dimensions. I gave a training and at the end someone had asked me if i thought that we would ever get away from paper documentation. i said of course, but it will not happen soon, for now we have to try and make the change from the inside. people will catch on soon enough, things are only starting to truly shift to bim now.
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I had a lengthy discussion with our structural revit users, the copy monitor system is nice but it needs more functionality. It seems for my architectural design purposes I am in need of what we now call "The Uber Model". I am documenting for our users the process of link our consultants projects then using V/G to filter out redundat elements and unwanted elements, then we will bind the projects into one model thus giving us the control we desire. I am hoping the scale of our projects that mainly are in the 10 to 20 mil. dollar tilt up range that this is the best course of action for us.
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in 2009 this has been addressed, i would be very very careful about what you are doing with the bind functions, so lets say this you have a 10 mil project roughly 40,000 SF, you have the arch model, probably about 20-30 MB, all MEP FP SS your looking close too (and this depends on alot of factors) - 60MB and sturtural again depending - 20-30 MB. Thats a total of 120MB (if you go high). also if there are any future changes by the "consultants" (which for the record, goes against everything that the theory of bim and coordination, general IPD!(and if you dont know what this is you might want to look it up)). excuse my french, but the copy/monitor is f****d up. esp if the case for mep, if you can even get a partical model from the arch you still have to pray to god that they placed to rooms correctly with the correct room volumes, then you have to copy them, if they choose too (there are various work arounds here).
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The project that brings up my linking issue is a 100,000 warehouse tenant improvement. We layed out the walls and openings, structural layed out the columns, beams, and roof. The roof deck was attacked to the top of the beams and in my architectural model I need a roof system that can attach to structural beams and architectural components as well. Since copy/monitor does not do roofing that only leaves me with copy/paste or bind correct?
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Eddieboarder...you haven't looked too closely at MEP 2009. Rooms are no longer used for MEP analyzation. They have a new option called "space" that the engineer places themselves. Its the same as the room, but totally controlled by the engineer, no more worries if the archtiect placed the room right or not.
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I know twometer, thank you for pointing that out, I think everyone has seen the inside the system video. I have not tested this but i do not think that the mep has to actually replace the spaces, i think they are generally brought back through when you link, i could be wrong, i havent had time recently to even load up the released version. Alabaster, you are certainly correct in what your assumptions are with the copying or binding. good luck and cheers all.
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