Forums >> Community >> Newbies >> Couple thoughts about Bim and software related

alexandrecollaco

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Joined: Thu, Jan 24, 2008
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   Hi everyone in RevitCity, first post here.

Well, I'm an architecture student and I've been trying to learn a BIM program for a couple weeks, manly because I beliieve that it can deliver to me the fastest documentation of my project. I believed too that I could use it to design as I think the project, but it doesn't seems to be that friendly.  

       So here are a couple thought about my experience so far, in both Archicad and Revit (the one that I'm more inclined to use)

    First both of them have some amazing features of making schedules and easily making plans elevations, sections and other things. 

    Revit miss one thing that Archicad have, the ability to trace a reference drawing below your design (couldn find a good way of doing it.

    About Viewport navigation, I personaly dont like the way revit work with 3D, cause the main 3D view is parallel projection wich the only use as far as I can see is to model organic things, for architecture the parallel just makes you more confuse. Archicad seems to have more organized sheets on the project browser, and have a generic perspective by default.  Revit seems to demand more hardware too.

    Working in a complex terrain, both of the softwares don't deal very easily vith terrains but revit seems to be way in front of archicad, with more features, easily creation  and the ability to show the amount of earth to be moved (ths is amazing)

     Wndows dorrs and simillar - This is the biggest downgrades of both, in archicad you have some nice default windows and doors, but to make some personalized object you need to rely on 3rd party software(wich is a shame, it should be all in the software) or programing(wich is even worse, I'm an achitect, my medium is visual, not programing). It have also some really smal non scalabe preview thumbnails that were suppose to help you( if you are using a mafnifying glass), but in the other side it allows you to resize the windows and doors in the 3d viewport wich is great and you can decide if the windows and doors are going to be open or closed(couldnt find a feature like this in the revit).                  Revit have an apparently more intuitive way to create windows and doors, since you are drawing it, but it takes too long if you are going to experiment, for example a window that would take me 2 minutes to do in 3dmax to do and  the adjust as I want is complex and not friend in revit, that work plane are a pain.... and slows the workflow. It doesnt allow you to resize the windows and doors in the scene too, wich for the design fase is terrible, having to enter the element properties all the time is not good.

     Roofs, stais, ceillings - Revit is way in front, it is easy to make, edit  and customize as you want, this features are great and easy to do, in revit.

    Traininig material and web content - although archicad have a great forum with a lot of nice people, it is hard to find content for free, revit in the other side have some great tutorials with thesoftware and a lot of library content on the web.

    There are a couple of other thins that I couldn't remember, but those are my imprression, revit seems to be more promissing, but have a lot of work to do to their advertisement phrase be true - You design develop your project as you work in it (or something like that), none of them are easy to make tests and studies quickly and intuitively, specially if you are going to experiment with customized design.

     Those are my impressions of BIM so far, probably I'm doing a lot of wrong stuff and getting the biggest path to get to a result, but I wanted to share my experience and see if there is people out there strugling as I'm. I believe this is a good way for us starting to share ideas and thoughts.

  bye bye, see you later 

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NKramer

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Joined: Tue, Oct 9, 2007
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Reference Drawings: You can attache a refence drawing and then trace over it. At least you can with CAD drawings. If you are talking about complex 3d refences revit might get a little fussy if you use model lines. But as a rule I dont trace drawings in Revit due to the inaccuracies/ compatabilities with other drawings. Generally I open up the other program, run the 2 side by side, and measure in the original format and then draw in the new. This is the way that I worked in AutoCAD also. Not to say that you couldnt trace from another program but you may run into non- paralel lines, lines out of plane, axis, etc.

View Navigation: I dont think that I understand your issue. Yes revit is not particaularly friendly when it comes to fluid modeling and organic shapes, but then neither is the building industry. Revit acts like the real work. In the real world if you make a curved wall, everything that goes on/ in it is either custom or in a straight facet of the wall. Thats just construction. If you are getting lost in the project browser you can add a project parameter to define "Drawing Type", etc and then sort by that. This helps me to differentiate between all 20 "Floor Plans" for a 2 story building. I have them sorted by enlarged plans, site plans, codes, etc.

Site Work: Actually Revit is fairly clunky when it comes to site work. It works great for massing studies, but even AutoDesk admits that their cut/ fill quantites are not that accurate. What it comes down to is Revit is an Architectural modeler not a civil modeler. AutoDESK wants you to use Civil 3d to do all of your detailed drawing and then import that 3d file... On the bright side site tools were # 1 or 2 on the wish list for 2009.

Windows and Doors: I think both products take the long haul approach. As you work on Revit more and more your family libraries become more complex and more diverse. Until then an easy workaround is to use linework in either a family or the actual view. If you want to futz with an opening during the design phase you can just create an inplace family and work on things that way. I am assuming that you are talking about braod scope changes like round to square to oval, etc. If you are just talking about going from a 2x2 to a 2x3 then you just need to develop a goo family library. The RevitCity library is a good place to start. You can use some of the base geometry, parameters, formulas, ect to develop your own standards. If you are talking about 1 offs then you just have to create each instance, the same way someone would in the real world...

Revit Stairs: Actually arent that great when in comes to actual construction. If you cut a section through your top rise youll notice that by default it uses a riser at the top (no tread) this riser actually tends to be 1/4" or so above the finished floor (something wrong in the calcs?) But as a quick massing/ calc tool it works pretty well, you just need to detail the heck out of them later.

Training Material and Web content: There is a lot of free content out there, but be wary alot of it is junk, or needs a lot of editing. Visa lighting and WIC both have their entire catalogues available for free downloading but both need a good amount of work if you want to use them for CD drawings as well as massing.

All in all though I really enjoy working with Revit. The bigest stumbeling block that most people have is the family editor, and I think that I am finally getting it all down. Either way you look at it though BIM is a million times better than dumb old CAD. I am not looking forward to picking up comments on my last CAD job and then doing CA for the next year ;p

Oh well in the long run I have pushed myself enough ahead that I should be able to pick my projects and put them in Revit from now on, another big plus. There are a lot of powerful clients out there demanding BIM and if you can be on the forefront then finding a job that pays good shouldnt be a problem.

Nick 

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alexandrecollaco

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Joined: Thu, Jan 24, 2008
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Hi NKramer, thanks for the answer. Carnival here, so sorry for the late reply.

Reference drawing: Yeap, I did that but as you said it is not that great. Archicad has an Amazing way to trace reference, for me is the best thing in that program.

View Navigation: Let me try to explain it better, what I was trying to say is that you can only work in the model using the parallel projection, wich is not good, since you cant visualize the result as it is in real world. And the other thing is that the "perspective", the one created with the camera, is stiff you have to use the "Dinamicaly Modify View" to be albe to move around the model, they should have a more 3D Max or Maya 3d environment like, I really don't know why it was done that way.

Site work: You are right it is not precise, but gives you some idea of the cut and fill.

Windows, doors: What I want is to be able to quickly play with the layout of the windows and doors, I found out that the best way for doing it is with the "curtain wall" tool since you can add mullions the way you want. I also think there should be a way to resize doors and windows on screen too.

Thanks a lot for the insights, see you

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