Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> Autodesk sucked me in again!

UserError

active

Joined: Fri, Dec 14, 2007
34 Posts

I agree with the OP.

Revit works great with a small project (like a house) but when it gets to a larger one like a hospital with several integrated systems (structural, mechanical), performance rally takes a hit and it definatly becomes a huge issue (waiting 20 min for a file to open ARGH!!!). So in an 8 hour day, I can easily spend an hour of it loading and saving my file.

There is definalty a problem somewhere with how Revit handles information. I am not a programer, so I don't know how to really express what these problems are but a 1.5 gig file isn't large by todays standards. Something that size can cripple my productivity. No other program out there, that I can think of at least, chokes like that.

You shouldn't have to have a high end system just to use Revit. We aren't working for Disney here on animations. If I was part a smaller sized architectural office with more of a limited budgets, I wouldn't reccomend Revit to my boss.

But since AutoDesk will never release any of their programmers white papers. We can only guess at why these things are happening.

Just chimming in.

This user is offline

brettgoodchild

active

Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
425 Posts

I worked at a reseller  for almost two years...all of which were spent supporting all Revit programs and many others, and I will be the first one to admit that it does have it's quirks about it...we all know that. With that said, what we found time and time again with firms having issues just like these that it was almost always bad practice on the firms, drafter, and CAD managers. By this I mean there was almost always excessive modeling, too many links, too many in place families that were copied all over the place, families, groups, views and what not being copied from other projects which has a horrible tendency to create many many copies of families, groups, and views. I have worked on a few files that have the families copied in it well over 100 times each. Things like this can really balloon your file size in a hurry and make your life a living hell. My advice...I would take a look at everything that is being modeled and see what doesn't need it. All too often files are way over modeled which takes time, effort, money from the firm, and client. It is too easy to get caught up in the modeling because it looks cool and makes a great model. The general rule is model for quantity detail for acurcy. This also applies to families as well. If you are inserting 10-20mb families...well, do the math, that starts to add up and fast.

If you have to model a lot, then look at better practices. Limit arrays and curved surfaces, also limit the amount of detail. If I create a door, i will never model the hardware, if I need to see it, I will use line work for it. Things like this will help drastically. As for file maintenance, I would make a multi category schedule. This can schedule everything that is not a system family (ie...walls, floors, roof, ceilings) and will allow you to see duplicate families. What you should look for is families that are named in a numerical order (single flush1  single flush 2 and so one.) Annotation families are known for this. Print out your schedule and then check all suspicious families...most of the duplicates will be able to select through the project browser and switched out for the correct family and deleted. I would also spend some time looking at my project browser to see what is unnecessary in it. What views are being created that could be created as reference levels, things like that.

I would then spend some time if you are using groups to see if they are being duplicated as well. A really easy way to find what is being duplicated is to review your warnings. I have found that most drafters don't pay attention to what Revit is telling them. It will let you know when it is duplicating familes and groups. The next item I would pay attention to is my links...thought they are a great idea, you should use them and unload them. They can cause a huge hit to your computers performance. Link in all the files necessary to do what you need and then unload them. You can always reload them when they are updated. Also when working with structural files, if you are copy/monitoring, take as little as possible, remember their file is a background. The next item would be worksets. Turn off what you don't need to see. If I am working in a furniture plan...do I really need the site and other worksets open like that. It is also a good idea to close hidden windows often. I have my comp. mapped to XX and do that about every ten minutes. Even though we don't see the windows they are still open and Revit does have to regen them. This will also help open and save times. Now for the biggie...please please please recreate your locals and centrals.

My standard is locals get created every morning and after lunch and central files get recreated once to twice a week depending on how big the project is. When at the reseller we found that our clients who listened to us and did this experienced about ( and I'm not exaggerating this,) 90 percent less problems that the ones who worked in the same locals and centrals for the duration of or project or even those who would recreate on a monthly basis.

  These are just some things that I have implemented, tried and tested and have had great success with. The firm I am with now is putting together a huge sports complex. To give you and idea, it will have about 20 linked revit files (not to mention all the CAD files, masses and what not,) per build phase and there will be 3. It consists of about 40 buildings total, two of which are domes for 4 indoor baseball parks.

We haven't had any problems so far that could not dealt with

I hope that some of these suggestions will you out, but please keep in mind, no one can design a piece of software that will work the same on all machines since none are the same with all the tweaks, customization, operating systems, 3rd party add-ins and what not.

Don't give up on Revit, it is a great and powerful program when used properly.

HTH

Brett

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

cwsharp

active

Joined: Sat, Jun 2, 2007
34 Posts

Well, you SHOULD work for Autodesk. Like I said, they don't use their products in the real world. Don't charge me 5 grand per seat for a product that is "the future of BIM" and then tell me I'm doing too much linking, modeling, and grouping.

Don't tell me that I have to insist that all of my consultants use Revit because I can't produce a compatable and acurate translation file for their use (A FILE THAT IS USED BY THE SAME SOFTWARE MANUFACTURER'S OTHER PRODUCT, AUTOCAD).

We created a roof that has a slope with a second roof over it (a required work around) so that we can taper back from the parapet to a roof drain interior to the edge of the roof. THAT is the real world. As soon as we did that, the performance went in the tank. Yes, we can turn off roof slabs in almost all of the views to help. There are a host of other examples. Give me a break...

I don't take offense by suggestions that we don't know what we are doing... there might be something in those questions and suggestions that we have overlooked since we again find ourselves in the world of work arounds.

I do take offense from people that gloss over reality to sell an agenda... and you offended me. Your opinion of proper use has NOTHING to do with what we are doing and expecting from the product and has ABSOLUTELTY NOTHING to do with the hype that is promoting this product.

And don't you dare say that a 90 person firm with the hundreds of years of collective CAD experience isn't using a product that consumes mass quantities of their operating budget properly, or I will invite you out to the parking lot to discuss this further. I certainly don't want to do battle with words and abuse this valuable resource (Revit City) that saves our butts day in and day out.

This user is offline

brettgoodchild

active

Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
425 Posts

Wow, I guess your right I guess I have no idea what I am doing at all.

I guess all the training I have done, all the implementations I have done and assisted on, all the projects I was called for consulting on and the magnitude of hours, days, months, and years I have spent figuring out problems and best practices along with all the training I have received form Autodesk, doesn't give me any knowledge or ground to stand on.

How dare me, how dare you. I offer suggestions on best practices that could greatly enhance your experience, performance and it offends you to the point that you do nothing but sit there and insult my intelligence and tell me you would take me out to the parking lot...go F--- your self pall.

I have dealt with so many people like you in the field that claim that they know exactly what they are doing and that everything is the problem of the software. Why don't you grow up and learn something about computers jerk. You could be having issues with you operating system, your virus scanner, even internet explorer, but I'm sure of man like you who knows everything would know all those potential issues. And yes, I will sit there and tell that a firm of 90 years of combined CAD experience can use the software incorrectly. Just because you have a lot of experience doesn't mean that you are doing something correctly. Each user has their ways of doing things, their own processes and ideas.

I have worked in firms that,  guess what, had a hell of a lot more experience than your firms 90 years and guess what else...their process sucked, there were about 30 users all older than me that were doing things poorly. A little fact for you that I have found in the field, the more experience in CAD and the more years in the industry....the more likely they will do things wrong in Revit. Do they all, no defiantly not, but a lot do.

But again, what could I possibly know about Revit, it was only my specialty. I have logged more hours on Revit in the last two years than you will log in you life so don't sit on your throne and tell me that I don't what hell I am doing and tell me that you would take me out to the parking lot. I mean how old are you...and maturity is not your thing either. when it has become very obvious to me that you are the one who doesn't know what you are doing. Next time some one offers you advice, why don't you listen to them first and actually read what they wrote. I never told you that all your consultants have to use Revit, if you read my post you would have seen that the project I'm working on right now will have tons of like, most of which will be CAD based from AutoCAD, ACA, and Microstation.

So again, I say to you Sir go F--- yourself, people like you do not need to be on this site. Especially just to come here and curse and complain about Revit and attack anyone who tries to help you. 

Have a great day Sir.

Brett 

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

JAMESHGRIMES

site moderator|||

Joined: Fri, Apr 14, 2006
584 Posts

BRAVO!! Well said. I agree with brettgoodchild completely!!

This user is offline

Jarno

active

Joined: Wed, Nov 21, 2007
3 Posts
No Rating

This user is offline

jeffburbank

active

Joined: Tue, Apr 10, 2007
5 Posts

Brett,

 You are absolutly correct on all fronts.  I too have seen large projects function faster than a relatively small revit project (say 50MB) based SOLELY on the drafting practices used.  It is important to follow good practices and keep things clean when working in Revit.  No, it didnt matter in autocad if you did whatever you wanted in ACAD, drafting up a storm every which way & following no rules, but ACAD doesnt have the same capabilities that revit does when it comes to an architectural drafting tool.  Revit is not your grand-daddy's drafting table and it comes with its own set of rules.  Someone mentioned that Revit cant swap files back and forth with cad efficiently... well of course not, Revit wasnt designed by the same software company, nor is it built off of an ACAD platform, nor is that the software's intention.  Revit has been an Autodesk Product for less than half its "life" so i think it is a little naive and rediculous to expect interoperability just because its owned by the same company. 

 As far as the post from cwsharp, i think perhaps you need to review the purpose of a forum.  This website facilitates the exchange of information.  Brett spent quite a bit of time from the looks of it wrighting a post to help out his peers, and you respond by insulting his intelegence and questioning his judgement.  What, do you suppose, would motivate brett to help somone else in the future if he constantly got replies like yours?  do you think a forum would work if it was full of ignorant, meatheaded bullies like yourself?  do you have a better suggestions than brett's?

the next time you read a forum post that you dont like, why dont you take the mature approach and either post better information, or ignore the post. 

-jeff

This user is offline

mthurnauer

active

Joined: Mon, Dec 17, 2007
83 Posts

Bret,

Thanks for the tips!

I am relatively new to this program, but have found it to be pretty efficient.  We used to do projecs where we would model the design using FormZ and then parralel that effort by producing 2d plans in AutoCAD, then make presentation drawings by importing the drawings into Illustrator.  We may generate 2d elevations and sections from the 3D model, but eventually the model would be abandoned and we would finish out in traditional CAD style.  this method is very inefficient and there is a lot of potential for improper referencing and duplication of work.  Revit seems to drastically improve the work flow.  Autodesk may not be as responsive to their customers as my favorite, AutoDesSys, but they do Beta test their software with numerous big companies on big projects.  So, they may not create fictitious large-scale projects to evaluate the performance, but the Beta testers do.

This user is offline

brettgoodchild

active

Joined: Sat, Feb 4, 2006
425 Posts

Thanks guys,

I've gotten a lot of responses in my email about the first post I put in this thread and I want ted to say thanks to everyone. I'm glad that I was able to help so many.

I am and will continue to watch and post on revitcity  and help out as much as i can.

Thanks to all,

Brett 

-----------------------------------

This user is offline

Roof Joins for this combo

0

Autodesk Revit 6.1 is now available for download

5

Autodesk I-Drop

0

IsRAI 9 per Autodesk Revit Bulding

0

New Autodesk marketing video

0