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Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 4:01:59 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#1

jlights


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Background: I am trying to make recessed lighting fixture families (troffers) using the Generic Face-based template because Ceiling hosted families cannot be used in a linked file (which is what we do), as the link prevents the family from recognizing the ceiling as a ceilng.

Problem 1: When draw the fixture geometry right side up in the Generic Face-based template, the fixture inserts itse;f upside down, stuck to the bottom of the ceiling. So I took the fixture geometry, rotated it 180 degrees (so now the fixture family itself looks silly, lying on its back), and reinsert the family into the project file. Now it relates properly to the ceiling. EXCEPT...

Problem 2: In the Generic Face-based template, the option to create an Opening is grayed out, so that when I do a rendering with these fixtures, the only thing that "glows" is the rectangular flange around the perimeter of the fixture, which sticks out just below the plane of the ceiling; the interior of this rectangle has the ceiling tile texture in it, and no light comes out of it. See the attached image to see what I mean.

Anyone have any ideas on how to solve these problems?  Thanks for your thoughts.

 



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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:34:51 AM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#2

psymon


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I cannot comment on your problem with linked files but...

the ceiling will only cut out if you create the family as a celing based family with an opening cut in the ceiling.

Other options are to extend the family down say about 25mm from the ceiling face and make sure the light source is in the zone between the ceiling and the base of the light fixture.

It is a limitation of working with linked files in this way.

 

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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:21:32 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#3

jlights


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Thanks for confirming that only the ceiling hosted template can cut through the ceiling. Unfotrunately this won't help the EE. I tried moving the light source down as you suggested and that was partially successful (see image- the two fixtures on the right). I believe what I have to do is create a "dummy" translucent plane at the face of the fixture, as that is what "glows" in the rendering. Of course then the diffuser won't look like the one in the actual fixture, which has multiple planes. But perhaps I can make this "dummy" diffuser invisible in all views. That might work...

Thanks again!



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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:15:52 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#4

jlights


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Thanks for confirming that only the ceiling hosted template can cut through the ceiling. Unfotrunately this won't help the EE. I tried moving the light source down as you suggested and that was partially successful (see image- the two fixtures on the right). I believe what I have to do is create a "dummy" translucent plane at the face of the fixture, as that is what "glows" in the rendering. Of course then the diffuser won't look like the one in the actual fixture, which has multiple planes. But perhaps I can make this "dummy" diffuser invisible in all views. That might work...

Thanks again!



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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:36:19 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#5

Typhoon


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Why don't you create a "Void" (opening) in your family Face-Based? Also, in your family go to "Settings-Family Category and Parameters" and change to "Lighting Fixtures"...

 



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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:48:08 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#6

jlights


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Thanks for confirming that only the ceiling hosted template can cut through the ceiling. Unfotrunately this won't help the EE. I tried moving the light source down as you suggested and that was partially successful (see image- the two fixtures on the right). I believe what I have to do is create a "dummy" translucent plane at the face of the fixture, as that is what "glows" in the rendering. Of course then the diffuser won't look like the one in the actual fixture, which has multiple planes. But perhaps I can make this "dummy" diffuser invisible in all views. That might work...

Thanks again!



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46731_face_based_w_lt-source_moved.jpg

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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:53:35 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#7

jlights


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(there seems to be an echo in this room. Not sure why my last post appears 3 times...)

A void is an interesting idea. I'll give it a try. Also, I did have the family set as a lighting fixture in Settings (or else there would be no way to make it light up) but thanks for mentioning this as it may be useful to someone else reading this.

 Thanks!


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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:54:32 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#8

Typhoon


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With family category "Lighting Fixtures"

 



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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:09:02 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#9

jlights


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(there seems to be an echo in this room. Not sure why my last post appears 3 times...)

A void is an interesting idea. I'll give it a try. Also, I did have the family set as a lighting fixture in Settings (or else there would be no way to make it light up) but thanks for mentioning this as it may be useful to someone else reading this.

 Thanks!


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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:23:59 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#10

Typhoon


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Well, really there is an Echo here...

 



Edited on: Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:24:14 PM

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Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:29:25 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#11

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It also looks like you have used a single point for the light source, you should use a linear light source like in Typhoon's screen grab.

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Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:45:43 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#12

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you could  also try and cut the geometry...the family editor is a fun thing since it reacts differntly in different situations.

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Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:16:48 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#13

jlights


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typhoon, I tried the void idea but the void doesn't cut through the ceiling geometry the way an "opening" in a ceiling-hosted family does, so I still got just a glowing rectangular band.

psymon, the light source type is indeed set to linear-  but I may have had a generic IES file attached to the family when I did that rendering, rather than the one that goes with the linear fixture, so that probably accounts for the spotlight effect.

Eddieboarder91, can you explain what you meant by cutting the geometry? The problem is that while a ceiling-hosted fixture has an opening built into it that will cut the ceiling, the face-based template does not have the opening, and it's the ceiling geometry that needs to be cut through. Any ideas on how to solve this?

Really, the issue is fundamentally that Autodesk has not done a good job of working out the electrical coordination issues, so I am having to develop an elaborate workaround when an appropriately-built template from the developers would solve this issue and make lots of contractors much happier.  

Thanks again, all.


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Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:26:40 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#14

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You should be copy - monitoring the file instead of linking it.  Then the C/M ceiling would be a copy that you could insert lights into.

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Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 4:07:33 PM | face-based lighting fixture families questions

#15

jlights


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Ah, if only the Revit developers would allow you to copy/monitor ceilings! That  would be the best solution to this problem. Here's from the MEP2009 help file: "The copy functionality copies grids, levels, columns, walls, floors, and openings from a linked project into a host project." No mention of ceilings, no tab in the copy/monitor dialog box for ceilings. Why they didn't provide the capability to copy/monitor ceilings is one of the great Revit mysteries. If you could tell me a way to C/M ceilings in MEP, I would be speechless with gratitude and amazement.

I believe you may be able to copy and paste individual ceiling instances (haven't actually tried this), but if you have a large building you could eat up a lot of billable hours just trying to make it possible to get to work.


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