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Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> topo surface elevation value

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Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 2:51:19 PM | topo surface elevation value

#16

WWHub


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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
13079 Posts
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I've got nothing to apologize for.  Almost all of the readers here who have come from an autocad background understand where you are coming from.   If you can't let go of the CAD though process, I suggest you quit trying to use Revit.  They are not comparible programs and you will only stay frustrated if you don't learn that.


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Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:14:49 AM | topo surface elevation value

#17

AndrejIlic


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Since WWHub is some kind of a master, here s a good message for him:

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.Albert Einstein



Edited on: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 5:27:49 AM

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Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:13:23 AM | topo surface elevation value

#18

WWHub


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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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3.5 Stars: 371 Votes


Thank you for thinking that but I have never claimed to be a master of Revit, just a long time user. 

I'm glad to see you finally posted after two years of membership.  We ask all members to contibute some knowledge so we are looking forward to some from you.

Thanks in advance.


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Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 3:11:18 PM | topo surface elevation value

#19

AndrejIlic


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I will share what I have. From what I read in this thread, your arguments were moving away from the subject. You were hiding behind "Revit is different than Autocad", but never explained why programmers created Revit coordinate system the way it is. Maybe thats because you re not confident about this subject. But, are you to blame for it? Absolutely no.

Check these links:

Countless posts here, big-shots arguing:    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/move-project-to-origin-point/td-p/7578661

Big-shot David Light speaks about how he helped setting up large projects:   http://autodesk-revit.blogspot.rs/2013/07/shared-coordinates.html

Hopeless user who followed the workflow recommended by big-shots but got into problems anyway:   https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/project-set-up/m-p/7617231#M174502

Some guy trying to explain Revit coordinate system, he writes esseys sustained by nothing. Who he is? Is he reliable? Autodesk author? No.  https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/revit-coordinate-system-and-project-site-setup/td-p/6350513

 

When you see this subjects where people argue about "who knows the truth" and when you see long explenations about something that is not confirmed, you must use Autodesk help as the most reliable source of information.

 

Lets see what can be found there:

Positioning:   https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-595C5BC0-EE23-4C6E-AD0C-9BCBF6598615-htm.html

If you look at the sublinks, you will find workflow for setting up project base point and survey point. They mentioned "clipped" and "unclipped" state and how to use it. Did they say why "clipped" and "unclipped" state was invented at all? No.

Revit Coordinate System:   https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-E67ED082-2556-475B-84A7-4605329F612F-htm.html

Beside Pr Base Point and Survey Point, they mention "the internal Origin". Did they mark the internal Origin? No. To make things worse, there is a limited range between Pr Base Point and the invisible origin....

They didnt mention a thing about a mess that you re getting into if you are using Specify Coordinates at Point:  https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2018/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-89298C90-FD56-4DA2-9DA2-84D29BA8A21E-htm.html

Just look how many people have problems after using this. So, the company needs to hire some big-shot like David Light just so that it can make a basic project setup and start working. Is that how it works???

 

Its not just you that doesn't have a clue about this, 90% of users are just as confused. See, thats the problem... Revit was created chaoticly. Thats the worst choice for no1 BIM platform (yet, it offered the best idea so far). It is not user friendly. Then, Autodask bought that garbege and did their marketing. They improved it, yes... But, these things cant be upgraided. It is the very core of the program and fixing this would mean to code the whole thing all over again.

I assume you love Revit and many of us have affections for some of its features. Regardless, face that it has flaws. 



Edited on: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:31:29 AM

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Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:54:34 PM | topo surface elevation value

#20

WWHub


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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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I am not confused at all about Revit's coordinate system because I have learned to work with it instead of trying to make it conform to Autocad processes.  Be aware that I was probably using Autocad before you were born starting with 2.6.  I actually started earning a living drafting in 1968 (before graduating as an architect) so I am also very knowlegable about working with surveys and documenting projects.  On top of that, I was writing machine language and Pascal language programs long before Microsoft introduced anything.  My earlist version of Revit is release 3.1, copyright 2001 - long before Autodesk bought Revit.  I was also a co-founder of our local Revit User's group about 6-7 years ago.

 

Now - with all of that crap aside, what we try to do here is answer questions when users don't understand something.   But to do that, the user must ask a clear question.  We are not here to give disertations to prove our knowledge.  In most cases, we try to point the user to the best source of knowlege to help expand where they are.  A problem arises when the user can not understand or will not accept an answer that is contrary to what they want.  We did not right the program. The user also needs to do things for themselves.  When it is apparent that they don't even look in their Help, we usually point them there first.  If you teach them to fish, they can feed themselves.

 

Coming from my own CAD background, I understand how hard it is to make the transition to Revit and the limitations the CAD thought process creates for the user.  Our office was pretty small, we only had 30-50 users at all times, and I trained almost all of them starting in 2006.  Our office also pushed our engineers to Revit (first in our area) so we had to understand coordination with other disciplines  I had about bi-monthly lunch and learns to keep our staff learning and understanding more.  


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Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:59:04 AM | topo surface elevation value

#21

AndrejIlic


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Well, if this is true about your background, good job. My intent was not to attack you, but Revit creators. So, no need to get offended.

You said: "what we try to do here is answer questions when users don't understand something"

Among many questions, I will choose just one. Hopefully, you will answer and at least have an argument that defends Revit coordinate system.

Why clipped and unclipped state was invented at all? 

 

Edited on: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:00:33 PM



Edited on: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 7:01:02 PM

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Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 4:14:45 PM | topo surface elevation value

#22

WWHub


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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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Very simple - It is like a gun safety switch.  It locks/unlocks the positioning.


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Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:48:29 PM | topo surface elevation value

#23

AndrejIlic


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Safety switch from what? Me rolling over the keyboard?

Why moving the clipped survey point affects the diplayed elevation of Project Base Point while not affecting the elevation of topography points? Does the project base point has some unique special elevation type?

Btw, thnks for replying. I apologize for writing things before the way I wrote it. I'm just bad at expressing so that I don't insult people who were not responsible for things that bother me. I respect your experience. We have to accept this now the way it is and if you help me understand this idea that caused alot of confusement, I would apreciete it. 


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Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:15:36 PM | topo surface elevation value

#24

WWHub


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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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3.5 Stars: 371 Votes


As I wrote earlier, this AUGI Edge article will help you to start understanding Revit's system.  You will probably need to sign in as a member of AUGI to get to this.



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