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Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 4:11:47 PM | Coordination with structural

#1

raffit


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Is there a "best practice" interface b/w the walls on a Revit structural model and the walls generated by us in the architectural model?  It looks like our engineers copy/pasted our wall entities and now we have a distracting overlap.  On top of this they added the footings as a part of their walls, and now if I switch those off, I loose the foundation walls generated by the engineers.

Is there a consensus on how to resolve those issues.

Thanks,

Raffi 


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:53:12 AM | Coordination with structural

#2

TJKENNEDY


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I am assuming that the wall is something along the lines of a stud wall on top a concrete wall, and the footing under the concrete. What would happen if you let the structural guys draw the concrete portion of the wall, and you do the stud wall? When they link your model they will have studs/sheathing/gyp etc. from your model (which can be easily halftoned on their end) and the concrete foundations with the footings will show up in your model when you link in theirs.

One of the things our (structural) office is trying to push is architects not drawing anything structural (including foundation walls) and we don't draw any arch. elements. Both of us can then put in generic stuff for coordination purposes. For example, and architect we are working with has been modeling columns, but they are not structural. The are simply generic rectangular columns for the purpose of indicating where they would like the structural columns to be placed. It is then up to us to model the actual columns with the right sizes, using the arch columns as a background to place them.


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:59:33 AM | Coordination with structural

#3

TABEST


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I recommend that your engineer switch their footings from walls.  I also recommend that they remove any walls from their project, if they need walls, they come in by linking your model into theirs (make sure links are not attachments).  You should discuss with them procedure from your perspective, who has what, who is in control of what, etc.  This helps since most people seem to be starting Revit, it isn't like CAD where we have 15+ year legacy users (who by the way seem to struggle the most with the transition to Revit).  Minimize the amount of information duplicated in both files.  I recommend that structural have floors, grids, columns, beams, structural framing and foundations.  No walls, no doors, etc.  Between your files, duplicate floors, grids, and columns.  If you have structural walls, it is up to you if you want them to control those walls or not, but it is better for you to control walls so that you can change finish, bound your rooms, etc.

  Best of Luck


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:47:30 AM | Coordination with structural

#4

raffit


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Thanks, guys. This is all VERY helpful, and as an added benefit, it makes sense. Smile

Am I in for a lot of trouble for suggesting to structural they should use our walls. Can they make structural calcs. using our elements? What happens if they need to add steel here and there, let's say as lintels within masonry walls provided by us?

They suggest setting up a workset for the structural walls. Isn't this an overkill? When they make the file available to us, do we have VG control over their worksets?

Thank you,

Raffi



Edited on: Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:59:08 AM

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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:57:35 AM | Coordination with structural

#5

raffit


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I somehow managed to repost the above using F5.  Disregard this note.

Raffi



Edited on: Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 12:00:14 PM

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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:07:34 PM | Coordination with structural

#6

TABEST


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Your vg with a linked file is pathetic, 2009 boasts better, but we shall see.  If you are using your lineworking tool, it doesn't work on linked files.  And no, worksets cannot be controlled from a linked file, you would have to manually go into their project to turn on and off their worksets.  You can control visibility of categories using vg, but that is about it.  Who is paying who?  If you are paying structural, then you are the boss, so tell them what you need and how you need it.  As far as if they need to do something with walls, they need to coordinate with you, and you need to do it yourself in your project...  If they have certain needs, they can create a wall type, and then you can copy that wall type from their project (either transfering project standards, or using copy monitor... I prefer project standards, as it is more straight forward).  Then place it where they want it.  Autodesk should never have given structural walls, I've seen that structural likes to put walls in now, and we had to tell our consultants that we are in charge of ALL walls.  And that was that!


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:13:51 PM | Coordination with structural

#7

brettgoodchild


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TABEST,

 

Those are pretty strong words, not that I agree/dissagree.

I am curious as to what problems you have encountered w/ structural consultants using the copy monitor process.

I would like to hear more if you don't mind. 


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:23:49 PM | Coordination with structural

#8

TABEST


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We have had lots of fun, walls where we don't want them (before we told them we place walls).  We have floors in areas that don't have floor, or the floor is at the wrong level.  We have beams that are incorrectly placed, or duplicately placed (3 or 4 in a very tight proximity).  The usual too, trying to run beams through plumbing walls, and my favorite, is columns in the middle of corridors!  Most of this is chalked up to us being inexperienced, but it definitely hurts when you print a sheet only to realize that it has problems because of structural.  In the beginning, once structural completed their floors (copies of ours) I copy/monitored their floors, after deleting our floors (which they had copy monitored) and we both ended up without any floors!  (thankfully they are very easy to put in, so it wasn't too much wasted time).

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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:34:42 PM | Coordination with structural

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I can see how that would be frustrating. Sorry to hear that it didn't go well.


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Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:49:37 PM | Coordination with structural

#10

raffit


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Thanks, all.  Not as a means to end this thread, as it is really interesting to me, having little practical experience with Revit, but just to show appreciation to all, who have chimed in so far.

 Any other BTDT's or horror stories?

Raffi 


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Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 3:01:11 PM | Coordination with structural

#11

BigD


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Just started my first project where I'll be coordinating with an architect using Revit (I'm the structural guy using R/Struc).  This has been a pretty helpful thread.  I hope that the architect I'm working with doesn't think as poorly of my work.  I've always tried to keep columns out of the middle of corridors. Smile

Anyway, my biggest question so far has been . . . how do we deal with the walls?  I've leaned toward the architect owning all the walls, I copy/monitor them into my project.  Wall footings should be just the opposite (Struc owns them, Arch copy/monitors them).  I think columns and beams and such are no-brainers.  Not sure about floors.  I guess I would lean toward Struc owning them and Arch using copy/monitor.

Any more advice / input?


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Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 4:46:00 PM | Coordination with structural

#12

TABEST


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Personally, I recommend that you monitor walls, but don't actually copy them physically into your project, saves on memory...  This way, if a wall moves, you get a notification, but it shows as changed immediately on your model (since you link in the architect's file into yours).  And a note to all, I don't think poorly of my structural companions, I just laugh because we are all fairly new to Revit, and it is not CAD.

 

Hope this helps

 


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Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 7:53:24 AM | Coordination with structural

#13

mthurnauer


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Raffi,

Mark Thurnauer here.  I have had pretty good success working with THP on my most recent project.  The project is decent size and complexityand the first I have done in Revit.  Since they had more experience than I did, I asked what was most sucessful way that they have worked with architects.  What we did was I had already modeled the foundation, slab, and structural framing.  They did a Copy Monitor and copied all of the structural content and then linked our file to theirs.  Once we received their first model, we linked their file into ours and then erased all of the structural components from our model.  There have been times when I have been designing a portion of the project and I may model some structural framing as part of the concept, such as some entry canopies.  I would let them know that I added the new structural components.  They would get our updated model and copy the new items.  When I see that they have added the new structural items, I erase it from our file.  The workflow has been pretty smooth.  The only problem I have encountered is that the engineers are not the people in the model; it is their draftsman.  The engineers like to draw out things by hand and compute out what the top of steel elevations should be when they really could just rely on the model to report that information.  My experience with the MEP has not been as good. 


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Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:00:42 PM | Coordination with structural

#14

raffit


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Mark,

 Thank you!  Will do as you suggest.  Darn it: I could have simply called: who would have thunk!?

Who did you work with from THP?  

 BTW, it is the same with mechanical: the girl who resolves the issues is not the person who builds the model.  Welcome to the future, where everyone uses 3D, especially the 3D draftspeople.

 Good to C U online.

Raffi 


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Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:54:14 AM | Coordination with structural

#15

djr2tiver


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we have a clash of method in our project. the structural engineers model shows openings in his slabs as voids which do not allow us to show rooms as shafts - they should extend up through the buildng but are prevented by the void and so stop at that slab level. If this was an opening in his slab this would not be a problems for us and information could be better scheduled. any idea as to why he is resistant to change to openings?


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