Forums >> Workflow & Implementation >> API & Third Party Apps >> 4D simulation in Revit?

smurf76

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Hello,

I have heard that there is a way to produce the construction sequence in Revit as series of JPGs according to phases created in Revit. In the project that I am working now, there are 5 phases of renovation, and i would like to make anything close to 4D simulation for the client.

Where in Revit do I specify the duration of these phases?

How do I produce the sequence?

Has anyone tried doing this in Revit?

Thanks a lot!

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rkitect

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smurf,

I have seen a demonstration of this.  Essentially, it was a slide show (powerPoint) of exported images during the various phases of the construction process.  I have also seen some software emerging that does this for you, but I can not recall the software names at the moment.  You shouldn't have any problems finding some that are available by googling "BIM Construction Sequence."  I recall that very few of the software options were even usable with Revit.

To answer some of the other questions:

-You don't specify Phase duration unless you want to name the phase "Week1", "Week2", etc.

-Export the images of every phase from the same view or which ever view sequence you prefer.  Make a powerpoint slide show with the images in the correct order.

-I have not tried doing this yet, but I have seen some impressive demonstrations and hope to do some of this in the future.

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ale02

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smurf76,

try and see the following image, is this what you are planning to do? I have around 10 phases for this project and I have only pick up 3 images same camera view but different phases) and insert as images for a cover pages in powerpoint

http://www.revitcity.com/gallery.php?action=view&gallery_id=4131

Follow's rkitect's advise will get you where you what...

'Quote: -Export the images of every phase from the same view or which ever view sequence you prefer.  Make a powerpoint slide show with the images in the correct order."

and if you are planning to have a phasing walkthru, it is going to take you even more time to prepare that.....read some of thread here in revitcity about phasing walkthru shall take you thru this but it is easily take you min 3 days or average 5 days to a week to finish up a projects like that...My tips...never go too details on this 4D presentation

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smurf76

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Thank you both for replying. Innitialy, I was planning to use Innovaya's Visual Simulation (which my firm just got) to do the 4D, but it doesn't work well for what I'm trying to do. It would work well for a completely new construction, but the project that I am working on is mostly renovation and it is difficult to represent activities in an already existing project, and both in an animated and visually appealing manner (it has inherent limitations on object visibilty, activity types you are allowed to create, etc).

I was curious to know if there was a way to tie the Revit model with the schedule and produce something close to simulation. So basically, I would need to create those phases in Revit, re-assign objects to them (since there are only Existing and New Construction at the moment) and controling for the visibility of phases make images. Does that mean that in order to make it close to a time-based sequence I would need to break the phase into "weeks" and instead of 5 phases have 50 "weeks"? That sounds like a lot of work in Revit and if that is the case I would suggest my firm to get a different 4D software ;-)

Thanks a lot for your help!!!!

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ale02

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Smurf,

Innovaya looks promising, but is the communication in 2 ways, i.e. changes in revit model will updates primavera/ ms project and changes in primavera/ ms project will updates phases in revit model?

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smurf76

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ale02,

Although Innovaya Visual Simulation is still not fully developed and refined, it has the ability to easily update both the schedule and the model. If the Revit model is organized in phases, Innovaya will automatically create the schedule according to those phases. If you have MP/Primavera schedule, once Revit objects are linked to the schedule in Innovaya, those links stay even after you make changes in Revit model and re-import it in Innovaya (likewise in MP). In Navis Works for example, there was a problem of doing updates of the Revit model because each time you export the model into NW, you have to do all the linking again. 

There are good and bad sides to both software. In Innovaya, creating and linking the schedule is very easy. What is difficult (actually it is impossible at the moment) is for example to create different activity types that are not tied to the basic ones (new construction, temporary, removing object at the beginning/end of the task). I would like to do a sequence of different trades later in the project and give them different color codes (red-carpenter, blue-masonry, etc..) I cannot do that in Innovaya, but I could in NW, but my firm doesn't have NW... And so on... I am trying to wrap my head around what's the best that I can do given what I have...

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ale02

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Smurf,

Thanks for the inputs...

One more question, can we have all our project schedule in Primavera/ MP and Innovaya link to blank revit project to assign phasing for us? If we can't do that, it is just back to square one, doing all the phasing in Revit is just killing me....

Any tutorials/ or books that you can recommend on both software? If I got time, properly can study more into them

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smurf76

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ale02,

If I understood your question correctly, I don't think you can have a schedule linked to a blank Revit file... As far as I know, you still need to do that manually, weather you decide to do it in Revit right from the start, or later in Innovaya, or MP/Primavera... I wish there was a fully automated process possible, but to my knowledge there isn't... That's where my problem initially began. When I realized that using Innovaya won't entirely work for what I needed to do, my other option was Revit, and my headache was to re-assign all objects to newly developed phases according to the schedule. I have no knoweldge of other ways to do it in Revit.

As for the books, I am currently using Revit 2008 - BIM for beginners since that's what I am at the moment :-) Other software tutorials you can find on their website (depending which one you're using). Bottom line - I am in search of information as much as you are.

Cheers, 

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ale02

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that is so so bad news....Assigning phases in revit was so tedious, I have to use alot of isolate, hide catagories, objects, rotates...etc...not to mentioned, changes to the pre-assign phases....

I was thinking, if we can have the master schedule done in MP/ Primavera, then let it direct automated assigning phases in revit...that, I think would be just great!!

At least you are at revit 2008, so far, I have seen a book in revit 5.5 here in Penang/Malaysia...other, we have to advance booking for the latest version... properly study online is a better option..

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JimMerritt

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I wonder if a simple program in the Revit API would work to assign the phases?  We are just begining to research the Revit API and doing some visual basic programming for automation.  The API isn't as open yet as AutoCAD, but there is a lot that can be done with it now.

--Jim

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3DBjorn

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Hi, I just want to mention NavisWorks.

We are sucessfully using NavisWorks to produce 4D from almost any CAD package, if you have NavisWorks Roamer and Timeliner installed on the same computer, Revit will be able to export in to NavisWorks. NavisWorks can then import the program from either Microsoft Project, Asta Power Project or Primavera. Or if the planning package being used can export in to an .mpx file. In the Timeliner you can set up any number of Task Types (Activities) and choose almost any colour and level of transperancy to represent that activity. Then you can export the 4D sequence in to a wide range of different video formats or series of images. If you do a lot of this type of work often in the office it might be worth buying a copy.

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calcoolram

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3DBjorn

I am currently working on Navisworks 2009. I tried to link a model created in Revit with a schedule I imported from P3. I have the following questions

• In the Timeliner Window, under the Rules tab there is a way to map the "Items" in the model with the "Tasks" in Timeliner. Ideally, it would be the easiet and most efficient way to link the schedule with the model. To make it more efficient, if you could import the "Items" from Navisworks to excel or some other format, you could create a schedule using the Items (This way there the spelling and format remain consistent). So is there a way to export the items from Navisworks. Or should this be done in Revit?

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3DBjorn

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Calcoolram,

NavisWorks can not export into an excel shedule, this is something I would like to see in future releases of NavisWorks. However there is a half automatic way to do this. If you work through the model in NAvisWorks and create Selection sets with the same item names as in your proegramme then you can utomatically map the tasks to the selection sets. This is how we prefer to do it beacuase as a contractor we dont author models and thereby cant alignt the item names in Revit with those in a programme. 

I hope this helps. 

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calcoolram

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Thanks Bjorn. So you guys create a set of selection sets based on the tasks in your Schedule. Then you run the rules to map the Tasks to the Selection set? Thats great.

 Now have you guys used a 2d model from CAD to import into Revit and then to Navisworks to do some 4D simulation?

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3DBjorn

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