Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Feedback needed regarding approach to Revit model

JoeHands

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Hi Revit experts,I would like some feedback using Revit 2015.The project is around 100 row houses spread out on 31 closters/rows with different level heights.I have chosen to make 31 sets of level lines (5 levellines for each set). i.e 1 set attached to each row of houses so its possible to control the level heights for each row and create plan views. (There is also a modular grid for each row) Furthermore each row wil have 4 elevations views. The thing is there is alot of repetition setting this up and it is a huge work - I wonder if I could do it in a smarter way?I have to create every levelline manually otherwise there wil be no plan view, right? The same goes for the elevation views and the sheets, right? And ofcourse I have a naming and number system for the views, level lines and sheets - which I also have name 1 by 1. Is it a stupid way to set it up - can it be done wiser?It is made in 1 file which will be linked in to a landscape file. If you have any comments I will appreciate it. Thanking you in advance.Cheers 

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WWHub

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There sure is....

Linked seperate Revit models.   Each one has it's own levels defined in that model.

This is where Revit excels when you learn to use it.

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JoeHands

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Hey thanks for your reply. That was also my first suggestion to make several files. But it was voted down, because it was stated it would be less work to make quantity takeout, schedules and updates with 1 file compared to have 8, 20 or 31 files. The row houses is build up with "groups". So if the groups is changed or moderated, the update have to be copied through all the files, which also is a lot of work - since its doesnt overwrite automatically. And its not possible to use "transfer project standards"

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WWHub

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It sounds like you think you already know the answers ... but you don't.

If you had a master project with the other files linked into it, you can schedule all there.

Groups are easily transported between projects so no updating required.

If I were doing a similar project, my projects would probably be what you call your goups.  I would assume each 'group' is really one of your houses and they are pushed / pulled in another file.... which really might be the master.

Another alternative might be similar to what we do with hotels.   The groups are hotel rooms that are develped in a design option in the main project.  Thes rooms have plan sheets / ceilings/electrical/architectural with elevations and details.

In the main model, groups are placed on multiple floors but only their interior walls are in the group.  The building exteriors are in the main model.

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JoeHands

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Well, I dont think know the answers. I wouldn´t ask for support here if that was the case. I am simply explaining the thought process and my current Revit/BIM knowledge. I appreciate your feedback its worth alot.What I would like to know is the answer to "Groups are easily transported between projects so no updating required"How is that easily done?I have grouped some of the exterior walls aswell, which is a mess when they are joining. I have done that because there is alot of repetition in the exterior walls regarding windows and doors. How do I draw data from a linked file in the master file. Doesnt seem possible when I am creating schedules in the master file.I got alot of questions - It might be to complex to get all the answers here in this way. Thanks for your input 

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WWHub

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My comment about your knowlege was kind of a knee jerk reaction to this "... it was stated it would be less work to make quantity takeout..." and this "...So if the groups is changed or moderated, the update have to be copied through all the files, which also is a lot of work..." which were kind of stated as facts.

Part of the problem here is that you are doing a complicated project and you might not be ready for it.  You will be making a lot of mistakes - we all do at first.  And if you have none users making your decesions, it will be even more prolematic.

Let's start with the easy one first - Linked files and schedules.  Look at the image beloew - did you ever notice what I have pointed to?  What you do need to understand here though, is that all data has to be filled out in the file where the element resides.  That can be prolemtic depending on your process.

Now lets talk about groups.   Groups can be exported to a file (including a library file) or can be directly copy/pasted from one open revit file into another.  Assuming you may have hosted items within a group but you may not want to include the host (such as maybe exterior walls or demising walls), you will not have a problem.   Revit exports to the group a 'temporary' hosting element to keep the hosted element happy.  When you place the group, it will look for a project host to use.  If non is found, the item will be dropped from the group but only in that instance.

So lets say you have group 'A' in projects 1,2 and 3.  Now you want to edit the group so you open file 1 and edit it and copy to clipboard.   Now you can open file 2, rename the group 'A' there to maybe group 'A old'.  Now you paste in the new groyp 'A'. then right click on the group 'A old' and pick 'select all instances in the model' then in the type properties, swap group 'A old' with group 'A'.  Now go to the next file.

These seperate files can be a nusiance to maintain but the advatage is - THEY CAN BE USED IN MULTIPLE PROJECTS!  They are a stand alone package .... really mostly just an internal package with the exterior done in another model.  In your case, that exterior model might be one 'strip' of housing that has the overall shell.   BTW - If you do your groups in a stand alone file, one of these strip files can be linked into your group to show as the exterior (and demising walls) but not included in the group.  (((Links can be tw ways)))

Complicated enough???? Yes but this is why Revit works so good.

Now I also presented an alternative in my earlier post.   That is the the groups are done in the broject - but in a design option!  This has advatages and disadvatages.   Design options can only be edited by one user at a time.  And the 'group' with all of it's detail sheets is not portable.  In this case, you might do the groups off to the side or actually in one place in the model.   Again, because all goup 'A' elements are the same, you only need one level first floor.....

This is a complicated process but your multiple levels may be even more complicated and it will be hard to manage.

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JoeHands

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Hi Again, Thanks for your time and patience!You are right, I will make mistakes and this project is on the edge of what I am capable of Revit-wise. Hope you dont get a knee-jerk reaction to what I am writing here;-)I feel i have control of the project regarding delivering the information, drawings, schedules ect. as the setup is right now in the revit model. But...The time consumption in setting it up, might be more than necesarry.As it is now 31 rows means:31*4 = 124 elevation views (crop view, put on sheet, turn view to project north + renaming after number system)31*3 = 93 plan views (crop view and put on sheet + renaming after number system)

31*5 = 155 level lines (with 31 view filters - so the right level lines is visible in the right view + renaming after number system)31 modular gridsEverything in 1 file - All is done manually..The advantage i see in this setup, compared to your suggestion is that, if there is any update in the groups it will happen instantly everywhere without having to open 31 files - copy - rename - replace.. (I am not saying I have done the smartest thing by making 1 file)I am going with this setup because its almost done, I will have to tryout what your suggestions, to fully grasp the methods. It might be a hard earned lesson not to go with it right away.I will investigate the "design option method" and how to work with groups in a better wayAnd again thanks for your input, its appreciated.

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JoeHands

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Hi Again,Thanks for your advice it has really been helpfull so fare. I have done as you suggestet. And it has worked brilliant.A short recap: I have 1 masterfile into which I have linked around 30 files. The linked files consists of groups which I is updatet in the process. My update routine is to open the linked files and open the file with the group. (I have a different file for each group - it might not have been necesarry) It has worked brilliantly until today - After the latest update of a group, there is a "fatal error" every time i try to "load as group into open projects" and replace the groups. It wont update the group and it wants to make a recovery file - I am stuck. I dont know what I can do? It wont update! 

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WWHub

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Really hard to say what the problem may be.   Review your group edit.  Go back to the original group and add something simple that affects nothing to see if you still get errors.  If you do, then it may not be this process but something else.   Have you audited all of your files?  Could there be a memory issue with your system?

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JoeHands

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I have audited the files, it doesnt help.If I ungroup the elements and delete the group name in the project browser. Then regroup the same elements with the same name, then  I can replace the groups in the linked files. But the position is changed. The groups is turned 45 degrees an moved abit to one side. Does it make sense? 

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JoeHands

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the groups is then mirrored and turned 45 degrees - to mirror and rotate all the groups manually would take alot of time.Is there away to do that automatically? or is a totally different approach required?

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JoeHands

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Sorry for spamming - Another thing is that the "restore all excluded" is visiable and when i press it, it doesnt disappear. I assume there is elements that cant be restored then - but it has been the case for several updates and it worked anyhow. And it is a nested group aswell

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WWHub

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I don't know if this could be your problem.  Groups have an origin that can be modified moving it in x,y,z and rotational.  Might be worth taking a look at.

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