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Forums >> Revit Structure >> Technical Support >> Joist Seats on sloped joists

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Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:12:24 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#1

Lenhoksin


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How do you, or can you, have the joist seat  bearing stay horizontal on a K series joist when the joist is sloped?


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Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:49:05 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#2

Lenhoksin


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How do you have revit cut a section at a sloped joist, bearing on a beam, joist girder etc. and have it show a little more accurately in the section.


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Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:02:42 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#3

Typhoon


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"How do you have revit cut a section at a sloped joist, bearing on a beam, joist girder etc. and have it show a little more accurately in the section."- Create a ref. plane then use the "Cut Geometry" tool to cut the beamto that ref. plane

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77754_cut.png

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I Hope and I Wish to LEARN  more, and more, and more.... REVIT

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Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:05:44 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#4

Typhoon


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Also use the "Beam Columns Joins" like you can see in the image i attached

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77755_beam.png

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I Hope and I Wish to LEARN  more, and more, and more.... REVIT

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Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 2:10:45 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#5

Lenhoksin


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That's not what I meant,  What I want to know is when you have a K series steel joist or joist girder that is at a roof and the joist is sloping, at the bearing seats the seat is manufactured horizontal to the bearing point while the joist is sloped. Right now Revit shows the seat sloping so when you cut the section it's not shown correctly.

Thanks in advance.


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Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 5:01:14 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#6

pdoug


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You would need to modify the joist family...I haven't done this as it would take a bit of time and if you are not familiar with family creation/modifcation it could take even longer.

 A quick and dirty way I have shown this is in the detail only.  I will draw a masking region to hide the parts of the sloping joist as needed so I can add detail lines for the seat.


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Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:43:42 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#7

Lenhoksin


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Thanks for the reply. I was afraid that it was going to have to be a work around.  Sometines it seems like Revit Structure is just lacking features.

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Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:51:33 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#8

pdoug


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Yeah - I hear you.  Since the joist family is one that comes right out of Revit, I would like to see it have features like sloping joist seats, double pitched top chord, etc.  I haven't seen joist manufacturers offer any Revit content, have you?

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Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:04:09 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#9

Lenhoksin


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No, I haven't found any.  The 2D drafting in Revit leaves a lot to be desired.

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Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:16:01 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#10

pdoug


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I used to find myself in a constant battle of deciding what to model exactly as it will be constructed; what to model so it becomes easier to detail; and what not to model.

In my current situation, our models are never used or provided to the owner for use with as-builts or anything towards that nature - so I am pretty free to do whatever is the easiest to get the final production drawings out in the least amount of time.  This has helped with the on-going battle I mention above.

As you work thru some of these things it will become easier and the 2d drafting features will become more second nature. They are powerful. 


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Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:52:35 AM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#11

revitaggie


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Its actually not that difficult to modify the joist family to show the sloped seat. All you have to do is add a blend showing the sloped seats, a couple void extrusions to clean it up, and some formulas to constrain the geometry and visibility.

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81166_kseriesseat.bmp

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Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:30:59 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#12

abaumgartner


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RevitAggie,

 Obviously you know a lot more about editting families than the rest of us.  Could you please spell out your process in idiot proof terms so that we know what your talking about.

 

Thanks,

Dumb Old Guy


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Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:58:20 AM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#13

revitaggie


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First off I'd like to apologize for not getting to this sooner.
You can do it one of two ways that I can think of.
-Create a sloping joist seat family by itself and nest it into the different types of joists.
-Edit the different joist families to include the new seat.
This is the way that I accomplished this and by no means claim that this is the only way to do this or the best.
The standard flat seat will need to stay the way it is in the joist. However, create a new visibility parameter to control it. The specifications I used from a joist manufacturer said that joists =< 1/4" per 12" slope had a flat seat. Beyond that, the seat height increased incremently as the slope increases. By the way I'll be referring to K-series numbers.
Here is a basic outline of the formulas from my family:
The tall side of the seat: Blend Ht A
The short side of the seat: Blend Ht B
The length of the seat: Seat Length
The length of the blend: Blend Length
slopenumber: ??/12"
angle=atan(slopenumber/12)
SeatHeight=if(not(slopenumber>1/4),2.5,if(not(slopenumber>1/2),3.5,if(not(slopenumber>2),4,if(not(slopenumber>3),4.5,if(not(slopenumber>4.5),5,if(not(slopenumber>6),5.5,(5/8+(2.5/cos(angle))+(4*tan(angle)))))))))
Blend Ht A=SeatHeight/cos(angle)
Blend Ht B=Blend Ht A-(Blend Length*tan(angle))
Blend Length=(SeatHeight*sin(angle))+(SeatLength*cos(angle))
Horizontal Leg of the Seat Thickness=0.25/cos(angle)
There will be visibility parameter on the new seat for slopes > 1/4" per 12"
A void extrusion is needed to shape the seat at the ends to make them vertical. Create the extrusions from the side of the seat. Constrain it using the align tool and a dimension to keep the face perpendicular to the bottom of the seat.
I've attached some pictures to clarify what I've explained.


Attached Images

86267_parameters.JPG86267_sideview.JPG

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Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 6:27:46 PM | Joist Seats on sloped joists

#14

jbro7


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Do you happen to have the RFA file for this? I am trying to do it manually but keep striking out.


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